Flushing: The Myth that won't Die

[pop22]

I was asked about salt build up in coco and decided to post the reply I gave here as it was a great question.

The medium makes no difference and the proof is in my current continuous grows. The medium is 70/30 soil/coco. I haven't changed the medium in over a year and have been using nutrients all that time. you'd think the "salts" build up would be an issue by now. Well, my plants say otherwise. Salts build up does happen and comes from the crazy idea promoted by nutrient companies that you need crazy high, levels of nutrients. I got my first clue from watching Hygro Hybrid on youtube. Here was a guy who regularly grew 1+pound plants in hydro, using a little more than 1/2 the nutrients most other hydro growers use, 650-750 ppms not the 1000-1400 ppms recommended by nutrient makers! That's when I started doing research.

Nutrient salt build up in coco is only an issue if: 1. you are using very high levels of nutrients, say more than 750 ppms. 2. Letting the coco get dry, concentrates the available nutrients ( less water in a solution, higher ppm ).

running at 650 ppms I've grown in re-used coco. In fact, when I was running coco, i reused it. I also stopped washing it and no ill effects were ever seen. and flushing agents are just another way for nutrient companies to pick your pocket, don't waste your money!

Not knowing how you fed your plants, if your really worried, feed them a milder solutions for the last few days, it will remove the extra nutrients by allowing the plant to use them. an EC of .8 or a ppm of 400 will work fine.

 

[pop22]

In case not everyone is clear on what a "salt" is here is a definition:

In chemistry, a salt is an ionic compound which is made up of two groups of oppositely charged ions. The ion with a positive charge is called a cation, and the one with a negative charge is called an anion. How many of each type of ion the salt has is important because the compound must have an overall electrical charge of zero - that is, an equal balance between positive charge and negative charge.

 

[EvilScotsman]

I was asked about salt build up in coco and decided to post the reply I gave here as it was a great question.

The medium makes no difference and the proof is in my current continuous grows. The medium is 70/30 soil/coco. I haven't changed the medium in over a year and have been using nutrients all that time. you'd think the "salts" build up would be an issue by now. Well, my plants say otherwise. Salts build up does happen and comes from the crazy idea promoted by nutrient companies that you need crazy high, levels of nutrients. I got my first clue from watching Hygro Hybrid on youtube. Here was a guy who regularly grew 1+pound plants in hydro, using a little more than 1/2 the nutrients most other hydro growers use, 650-750 ppms not the 1000-1400 ppms recommended by nutrient makers! That's when I started doing research.

Nutrient salt build up in coco is only an issue if: 1. you are using very high levels of nutrients, say more than 750 ppms. 2. Letting the coco get dry, concentrates the available nutrients ( less water in a solution, higher ppm ).

running at 650 ppms I've grown in re-used coco. In fact, when I was running coco, i reused it. I also stopped washing it and no ill effects were ever seen. and flushing agents are just another way for nutrient companies to pick your pocket, don't waste your money!

Not knowing how you fed your plants, if your really worried, feed them a milder solutions for the last few days, it will remove the extra nutrients by allowing the plant to use them. an EC of .8 or a ppm of 400 will work fine.

Bingo mate. Couldn't put it any better.
I've actually just done an experiment to see if I could feed 400ppm from seed to finish in coco and it works like a muthafucka. Photos and autos all went without a single glitch. Well... a few drunken Scotsman glitches but none from the nutes lol

 

[Dichoti]

My only "concern" with re-using my coco is how long it takes to break down, and if it'll need replaced after a while. I've been re-using the same stuff for a year now, and the only variable that's affected my gpw/per plant average has been the laziness that comes with working 60 hours a week.

 

[pop22]

Actually, I think a look at nutrient level vs available light is something that needs a closer look. I had an interesting experience that began my interest in this. I was growing with a Vipar Spectra "675" watt ( 435 actual ) light. Now you'd think that would have been plenty of light for a single plant, yet the plant became N toxic... at 425 ppms of Seagrow, an organic based nutrient! Same strain, under cob lighting and she looked perfect using 650 ppms. I currently feed my plant Megacrop and the highest ppm I use is 600 for one particular plant which seems to like her drink....lol. All the rest get 475-525 ppms and look great.

It also pays to pay attention to breeder descriptions of a strain ( when they even bother to give enough info.... grrrrr.... ). what color are the leaves suppose to be? If you have Sativa strain known for its light green foliage and yours is medium to dark green, your over feeding it! Nutrient toxicity is not always apparent until you see clawing very dark green leaves, yet for your strain, medium green could my your over feeding. Its things like this you learn as you gain experience.

Bingo mate. Couldn't put it any better.
I've actually just done an experiment to see if I could feed 400ppm from seed to finish in coco and it works like a muthafucka. Photos and autos all went without a single glitch. Well... a few drunken Scotsman glitches but none from the nutes lol

 

[pop22]

I believe tony21 told me that he's been using the same coco for years and just adds a little to it when needed.

My only "concern" with re-using my coco is how long it takes to break down, and if it'll need replaced after a while. I've been re-using the same stuff for a year now, and the only variable that's affected my gpw/per plant average has been the laziness that comes with working 60 hours a week.

 

[EvilScotsman]

See, because I usually grow in full hydro you can tell what the plants are actually absorbing. It's roughly 100ppm per week of veg. Then levels off till week 4/5 of bloom then drops rapidly down to almost nothing for the last couple weeks.
My coco grows this year though, I've also been re-using my coco. Just give it a half decent rinse and it's good to go. I use cubes for the first 2 weeks tho so they can handle a fair amount by the time I pot them but it hasn't caused me any issues.
See what really winds me up about this though is how the hell do the nute companies get away with it?
Some of the feeding schedule they recommend are just insane. I've seen them as high as 2500 ppm. 800ppm for seedlings n shit like that. Even my pounders have never needed more than about 1000ppm at full tilt.
So many new growers take 3 or 4 grows to suss shit out because they just wont listen to people, asuming the nute companies know best. And you'd think they would knkw best. They should know best. But for some reason not a single nute manufacturer on the planet actually has the slightest clue about how to feed a plant. How is that even possible?
It fries my brain and perplexes me deeply lol

 

[Dichoti]

See, because I usually grow in full hydro you can tell what the plants are actually absorbing. It's roughly 100ppm per week of veg. Then levels off till week 4/5 of bloom then drops rapidly down to almost nothing for the last couple weeks.
My coco grows this year though, I've also been re-using my coco. Just give it a half decent rinse and it's good to go. I use cubes for the first 2 weeks tho so they can handle a fair amount by the time I pot them but it hasn't caused me any issues.
See what really winds me up about this though is how the hell do the nute companies get away with it?
Some of the feeding schedule they recommend are just insane. I've seen them as high as 2500 ppm. 800ppm for seedlings n shit like that. Even my pounders have never needed more than about 1000ppm at full tilt.
So many new growers take 3 or 4 grows to suss shit out because they just wont listen to people, asuming the nute companies know best. And you'd think they would knkw best. They should know best. But for some reason not a single nute manufacturer on the planet actually has the slightest clue about how to feed a plant. How is that even possible?
It fries my brain and perplexes me deeply lol

I suppose I should start doing more than "a scoop of this...a drop of that..."

Maybe I'd beat my 8oz record if I started watching ppms and ec. I usually average 4.5-6.5 oz a plant by watching water color and using 1/2 of what the nute company says to use.
With Megacrop, it seems like a light tea color works best.

 

[Unique]

See, because I usually grow in full hydro you can tell what the plants are actually absorbing. It's roughly 100ppm per week of veg. Then levels off till week 4/5 of bloom then drops rapidly down to almost nothing for the last couple weeks.
My coco grows this year though, I've also been re-using my coco. Just give it a half decent rinse and it's good to go. I use cubes for the first 2 weeks tho so they can handle a fair amount by the time I pot them but it hasn't caused me any issues.
See what really winds me up about this though is how the hell do the nute companies get away with it?
Some of the feeding schedule they recommend are just insane. I've seen them as high as 2500 ppm. 800ppm for seedlings n shit like that. Even my pounders have never needed more than about 1000ppm at full tilt.
So many new growers take 3 or 4 grows to suss shit out because they just wont listen to people, asuming the nute companies know best. And you'd think they would knkw best. They should know best. But for some reason not a single nute manufacturer on the planet actually has the slightest clue about how to feed a plant. How is that even possible?
It fries my brain and perplexes me deeply lol

I re-use my coco also, I find it no different then in previous runs...Just as stable, no issues I give a really good flush(hahaha the topic peeps argue over) But I also do flush my plants towards end of grow, but not what you'd consider a "flush" what I consider a flush at end of grow is the last final days to week just plain ph'd water not an actually flush really no need if done like that.. But, also I think this subject people get a little carried away saying flushing is myth, I am not sure I believe that...Everyone run's different setup's,different style of nutrients many variables.. I don't know why some who insist it's wrong for them of us who do...I know if I run out of time and don't get a certain amount of plain water through then I do flush with enough to make sure, but i surely don't go crazy... Some of us do Like chemical Nutes and if done correctly you couldn't tell the difference between chemical grown plant or Organic I'd put my stuff up to the challenge... No Doubt with Organic you don't need to flush, but not everyone chooses to run organic for many reasons..But it surely isn't wrong or a myth for people "Not" grown Organically ...It's kinda wrong to say we are wrong...We know our nutrients and what it takes to not have any of that in end product...I wish people would be more opened minded to other's style of growing...Just coz something wrong to you not make it wrong to everyone....

 

[Tony21]

I believe tony21 told me that he's been using the same coco for years and just adds a little to it when needed.

Yes, that is so, reusing it with roots and all. No issues

I've never flushed any plant, I grow in flooded large trays, 1,2 x 1,2 m, plants come and go, feed is always the same, regardless of stage of growth.