Fast Buds Fast Buds LSD-25 first grow

[Herbisaur]

Totally newb'd it overnight. On of my make shift light fixture for my cfl bulbs fell about a millimeter and swung forward onto my smallest. In the above pictures she's the one all the way to the left. I think it happened not too long ago but either wy the main cola got burned. I ended up cutting the tip of the main cola which was 4 buds out of a cluster of 10. For some reason that particular plant wasn't making one tip but instead 4 tips. The very middle had a very weird looking solid pick mutated looking flower that was underdeveloped and I guess the side buds grew up to take its place. It looked pretty fat because they were clustered but it was 4 individual short arms branching off the main. Anyway I snipped them, did my best to manicure and now I have 4 separate little buds hanging in a dry box I made last night thanks to @Fuggzy . The wet weight of the buds after manicuring and destemming was 23g so I'm guessing I'll get 5-5.5g dry.

At first I was devastated because the earliest I wanted to cut anything was March 1st, but I am taking this as a learning experience. After manicure I see that the buds definitely aren't where I want them yet in terms of density so I'm going to let them go another 2-3 weeks I'd say. Plus I am out of herb, so now I'll have 5 grams or so to keep me occupied haha. I do think those 5 grams could have possibly been 8-10 if left for 2-3 more weeks judging by how fast the plants have been swelling, but I have 5 more lsd seeds coming so I'll make up for it next time.

This same light fixture has not\w burned my girls twice from malfunction. The first time was early on and on a side branch so that branch just to topped and now has two legit colas on it. However, being that this second time my main cola got attacked I am in the market for a new light. My space is 2.5'x3.5'x8' I have a lot of vertical space. I was thinking of investing in a 400w or 600w MH/HPS. Is 600w overkill? They are only about a $30.00 price difference so if 600w is better I would definitely go with that. Suggestions? Also any brand suggestion would be nice. There are some well rated setups on amazon but every 4.5 star rated product has at least a few terrible reviews that make me scare to buy them and the ballast go out in a few months.

 

[Fuggzy]

Hey man, glad to hear you got a box put together. And that sucks about the light falling. Don't feel to bad about it, it's actually more common than you may think. Did you say you are growing in a closet or a tent?

So in regards to a new light 600w would work just fine. It would give you 68.57 watt/ft. When buying a light most people suggest 50w/ft as a good guideline. Your biggest issue with a 600w is going to be heat. They get really hot, and if not properly vented, can cause really bad growing conditions. The best option would be to get an air cooled hood and connect it to your exhaust system. That would be true for 400w too, although it would be easier to cool w/o the hood. With most of the packages out there on amazon you get an dimable digital ballast. This means you could get a 600w system, and put a 400w bulb in it, and simply turn it down. Another upside to digital ballasts is that they run cool/warm, where as magnetic ones run hot.

Below is a pic of my tent/light set up. It is a 600w, air cooled, with the digital ballast. It is in 8 sq', and gives me 75w/ft. The air is drawn threw the filter in the top right, cycled through the light, and out the port on the top right. There is a plate of glass below the bulb, that seals it inside, and forces the air around the bulb. I am able to place my hand on the glass directly under the bulb w/o burning myself. To put it in comparison, the smaller tent has a 150w with an exposed bulb, and actually gets hotter during mid day. The w/ft is a bit higher at, but only 1/4 the power.

Do you have an active exhaust? Do you have a fan for air circulation?

When I bought my light I was on a really tight budget, there are better (reputation wise) vendors. Vivosun doesn't have a bad rep, just not well known. The biggest complaint if I remember was the timer being really crappy, so I just didn't use it.
This is the exact kit I bought. Amazon product (it goes on sale for $10 off every now and then too) I will say that the packaging was very well done, and secure. The hood feels solid, and does not twist under it's own weight. The light hangers are solid, and have metal gears inside. <<That is very important by the way, don't get plastic geared hangers, they will break. 600w light falling while you are not home could result in fire pretty fast. My biggest complaint is the cord for the lamp comes out the side of the vent flange, If you look at the right side it above, my 6">4" adapter is crooked. Thats more of me nit picking, it doesn't affect the performance. I taped all the connections anyways. If you are on a budget I would recommend this unit. It is nothing fancy, but it does a good job. You could always upgrade the bulb later if you wanted to squeeze more out of it. If you are able to spend a bit more, Apollo has a decent reputation for their warranty department. Failures are going to happen, and I hope to hell it does not happen to either of us, lol. But I have read a some good reviews of Apollo taking care of faulty gear in a timely manner.

Did your bud happen to look something like this? If so that is called foxtailing. In some cases it is a genetic trait, but most times it is due to heat stress. Talk to you later bud.:smoking:

 

[Herbisaur]

@Fuggzy I do have an exhaust but it is pretty much worthless. Right now the only purpose it is serving is to throw the smell into the attic. I have weather stripping around the door so it makes a pretty tight seal. The ladies smell sweet and potent but not unless I open the door or go in the attic. I can't smell anything outside so I haven't needed to make a carbon filter yet. I also have a tower fan on lower oscillating 24/7. Heat is an issue as my space is right by the hot water heater and the kitchen so that area stays warmer than the rest of the house. For a while I wasn't running the heater and I was letting house temps get down to about 60 and I was just dressing warmer haha. However, I started running the heater because I just couldn't take it anymore. Temps stay at about 85 in my space. I am seriously considering buying that 600w ups with the cool hood, seems ideal!. I also see a lot of people on here using Marshydro which on ebay I could get two 300w for around $140 and supplement with cfl, but I kind of think one light would be the easiest to deal with. I've always wanted to use LEDs but I always hear so many of them are total shite so even though I see these fantastic grow journals using them I'm still skeptical.

I am actually glad that I cut some of my herb, but I probably should have cut half as much. I have a little handheld microscope and it's so much harder to use when the herb is on the plant. I was thinking it was about 70% cloudy/30%clear, but now that I can look at it better it's closer to 50/50 so I am actually going to give one last coconut sap/buddha bloom feed and then let them go for 2 weeks with just plain old tap water. A few days ago I was thinking I could harvest soon and be satisfied, but the buds are growing significantly still so I knw if I wait that 2 weeks I'll be much more pleased in the end.

@Fuggzy thanks for helping me through this grow. It's funny because I started the thread towards the very end, really just to get some more pics of led-25 circulating through the community because she's such a beauty. I didn't think I would get so much valuable information at this point in the grow. The knowledge/tips you have given me are not only going to make this final product better but also make my next grow exponentially better than the first. I think grow #2 I'm going to do the three pack of fast berry with 2 of the 5 pack of LSD. That way I can dabble with two strains at once, hopefully improve on the LSD results, and have all colored phenos

Cheers Fuggzy! You're the man!

 

[elsamurai]

hey Herb. looking good, keep an eye on the pistols. when they are mostly orange, you'll be ready. and not to knock the cfl's, as I used them myself for awhile with good results, I would recommend an LED panel for the next time if you can afford it.it makes a huge difference in growth. but you're looking real good. i'd say a couple more weeks left. and its some kick ass smoke

 

[Herbisaur]

@elsamurai you are the reason I'm growing this LSD! Saw your first journal and the purps got me hooked! It wasn't until later that I found your mega grow of the LSD, wish I had seen that sooner...I would have done a few things differently. You grew those girls out beautifully! Total inspiration for me! For a 2.5x3.5 space what LED panels would you use? I am on a tight budget but I know the LEDs pay off in the long run because they last so long. Maybe if I need two panels I could get one and do a hybrid grow LED/CFL and then when I can afford a second one I can fully convert. Although I have also been looking at a 600w HPS which is relatively inexpensive and would probably blow my 380w of cfl out of the water.

I thought when my cfls fell the first time and burnt a side branch it was the end of the world but burning that main cola the second time was devastating. I ended up panicking and clipping 4 buds off the main stem, I probably should have only clipped the one that got burned the worst, but I figured I'd take off any possible damage and allow the rest of the plant to keep growing. Anyway all the buds are so much fatter than they were just a few days ago when I posted this thread, so I'm definitely waiting at least two more weeks before I even consider chopping as most prob 95% of my pistils are white and the trichs are only 50/50 cloudy to clear.

The 4 buds I trimmed off weigh 13 grams (started around 22g wet) right now in my drying box. once they get down to about 5g I'm going to cure them just to make the best out of it. What is really amazing is that I dried the sugar leaves from the 4 buds i trimmed for 2 days and then I threw them in a mini sauce warmer with a tablespoon of coconut oil and some water (the sauce warmer never gets above 150 degrees). I let that mixture brew for about 6-7 hours, stirring every time I'd walk by it. I then refrigerated the mix until the oil separated and I mixed the oil with some of that ready made edible cookie dough (by cookies dough cafe, delicious). Not only did it taste amazing, but I was so high I couldn't move for about 2 hours at the peak of it. I was hallucinating, not too vividly, but in a daydream sense where when I'd close my eyes my imagination was so enhanced I could clearly visualize things. It was a fantastically intense edible experience from probably no more than 1.5-2 grams of sugar leaves! I can't wait to see the full potential of this herb!

 

[elsamurai]

hey Herb, thanks for the kind words. my tent is small, 20 inch x 36x62. I would highly recommend a Mars-Hydro 96x3 Reflector series. to start. I did cfl's and upgraded to the M-H. then added a few Amazon ufo's. and since its cold and its out in the garage, I have 4-5 23w cfl's hung low for the heat. but if you can swing it, the M_h 96x3w is a good start. then add another when you can and I think you might be set. and the reflector series has been the most reliable model they make imho. my first taste had me a bit trippy. one of my favorite strains

 

[Herbisaur]

@elsamurai how far away from the plants do you hang the LEDs? I see on amazon 2 pcs. Mars hydro 96x3 reflector for $380.00 does that sound right? I have an amazon credit card so I could buy both and just make payments. So is each lights actual wattage 96x3= 288 x2 lights so 576 total watts? Or is actual wattage lower than that? Also how do you think two M-H panels compare to a 600w hps. The 600w hps with a cooled hood is half the price of those LEDs which is tempting.

 

[Fuggzy]

Hi bud. In regards to LED power consumption and output, most of the prefab boards are ran at ~50% power. So the above mentioned light would put out about 144 watts each. 96*3/2=144. The actual single LED is rated at 3 w ea, but if you run an LED full power (home made or prefab) it looses a lot of efficiency, and dies way faster. The range of 50% power is more or less an industry standard. Some do more, some do less.

If you really want to get the most out of an LED panel, your best option would be to build 1. I try to tell this to anyone interested in LED. You can get an actual customized spectrum ( isn't custom when you pick it???), run it more efficiently than 95% of prefabs (the biggest benefit of LED), spend a decent amount less cash, and have a white light emitted rather than a pink/purple light that will off set the white balance in you eyes, and potentially give you headaches ( i would suggest reading a bit about this. Some people get migraines after just 10-15 mins looking at the emitted light).

Here is 1 I built for my micro cab. It is 4 bridgelux Vero 10 cobs (Chip On Bard, it is a cluster of diodes rather than just 1). They are rated at 20 watts each max power.

4 vero 10. 2 @ 3000k, and 2 @ 3500k. Ran at 350ma. ~26.7v * .35a=9.345w *4= 37.38w total. I am running them below 50% to increase efficiency, which can be done with all LED while some will actually excel under driven. My heat sink and fans are over powered for only 18.7 watts each, but they only raise the temp by 1 degree. Right now with it being colder (they are in my garage) they are providing zero heat to my plants. Which would be great if they where inside, lol.

This is the first bud I grew under it, and my journal has it with a few other plants grown under it. (also my very first harvested bud, I like to show her off, lol.)

This is 24 cobs that I paid $120 including shipping.

They are made by Bridgelux, one of the leading manufactures.
Some heat sinks (3" x 22") and drivers for a larger light.

These and the 24 cobs would give me 224.28 actual watts. In total this would be rated/advertised at 480 watts (24 cobs @ 20w ea)
Some 3w diodes for customizing spectrum, and small heat sinks and drivers for them.

The micro light was my first build, to get my feet wet. It cost me ~$45, but I was not fully educated, and spent to much on my drivers, although they are Meanwells (best manufacture for drivers in my opinion) . The 24 cobs, drivers, and heat sinks for them ran me ~$200. That comes out to be less than $1 per watt!!! You can still get better gear than what I have and increase the efficiency of you cash even more too, although it will cost you more money initially.

Now I will say that if you want a light better than a standard prefab, you will have to do some research. If you don't have a basic understanding of electricity, it can be a very daunting task, as you will HAVE to know and understand some stuff before choosing your gear.

Just like anything in our disposable word, there are cheap junky LEDs too, and they need to be avoided. A few manufacturing leaders are Cree, Bridgelux, and Philips. These 3 companies not only provide some of the highest quality, but will provide you with any and all tested information you need/want. I highly recommend you stay away from cheap LEDs from cheapbay. They are typically of lower standard, and will not be worth the pennies it took to make. A rule of thumb I try to follow is, if there is no specs provided by the manufacture, stay away from it. If the company is not willing to test their product, and post it's specs, why should you test it for them?

Now if your in need of immediate satisfaction, aren't good with electricity, or want to be bothered with DIY stuff (or w/e reason really) then I would recommend the MH panel. There are some great grows on here using them, and they are priced cheaper than a lot of other panels. I don't know if $380 is a good price, I have not watched the market in a while, but for 2 panels it doesn't sound to bad. It comes out to be in the range of $1.32 per watt, which isn't to shabby. (don't compare LED and HPS $/watt. Their thermal dissipation is way different, 1 watt of led is a big jump from 1 watt of hps)

If you are interested I would be more than happy to give you a hand providing you with some info, and making the learning process a bit easier. Sorry I didn't think you would be interested in LED when you asked about HPS or I would have brought this up then. Always go with LED over HPS if you can afford it. DIY LED>Prefab LED>Any HPS. Take care bud. :smoking:

 

[elsamurai]

you can get 2 direct from m-h for $348 minus another 3.4 %. and if you go that route get ahold of @MarshydroTina . she might get you a better deal. the diy Fuggzy did looks like a good option if your electricly inclined. I'm too lazy and way unqualified for that.and myself how far I hang the lights depends on how the plants respond. I start at 24inch and go higher or lower depending on how they are growing.if they seem short, I raise it,too tall I lower it. right now I have 1 plant that's grown to within 3-4 in and I ran out of vert room. but with multiple panels I angle them and bathe the whole plant in light.and the power consumption is not that noticeable on the elec. bill. but Fuggzy's right. advertised watts and actual watts is about 1/2 to 2/3rds.and as they get to blooming, I try to have them 12-18 inch away

 

[Herbisaur]

@Fuggzy the information you are providing me with is top notch sir, greatly appreciated! I used the drying box info already and it came out fantastically! I will use the carbon filter info tutorial for my 2nd grow for sure because these girls are really pungent! It's like sour sweet candy, it's fantastic. I appreciate the very detailed explanation on making my own LED panels, but I can safely say I probably will never make my own haha. The herb you grew with your homemade LED is gorgeous, cheer to you sir!

@elsamurai thanks for the heads up on contacting M-H direct that pricing is lower which is better haha. My friend has a 150w HPS plug n play light that he offered to give to me as he failed miserably on his first grow and gave up. So for my second grow I am probably going to try to add that in with my cfls and see what happens. My ultimate goal is to get the LED panels but financially I am not in a place to purchase them at the moment. The HPS will put me in the 500w area so my next grow I plan to grow 5 ladies.

Also I'm really kicking myself for chopping off as much of the main cola as I did on my burned plant. Now that she's drying up more I can definitely see that she had a long way to go. The crazy thing is the smoke is still kick ass even though the herbs were harvested so immature. I just see how fat the buds are getting each day and I know that that main cola had so much more potential.

Anyway here's a pic of the herb I harvested prematurely

To my untrained newb eye the buds looked so fat and ready, but it was a lot of leaf mass. I didn't really understand the structure of the bud until I began trimming. I will say that although I definitely don't recommend harvesting in 50 days (I'll probably go to day 70) if someone were in a pinch and wanted herb in 50 days from seed they could get some legit smoke from this plant. The yield would be total shite, but this stuff quick dried and vaped punches me right between the eyes for a solid 2 hours or so.

I'll post more pictures of the ladies on day 56 (2/29/16), the official 8 weeks mark