De-Carb Needed for a Tincture: Yes or No

[Chester]

Ardent Nova Decarb .... http://www.ardentcannabis.com/product/nova-decarboxylator
@BayLee420 swears by his ...

 

[olderthandirt]

Hey @Chester I've heard plenty good about this lil' device. Outside my price range at this point sad to say.
I have been monitoring the temp fluctuations in my oven. Seems pretty well locked into -10 / +5 degrees so for my purposes the oven will just have to suffice.

 

[VitaMan]

Hi @olderthandirt...I Love the "old school" way...at least a 30 day soak, but the longer your material is in the alcohol, the more chlorophyll that is extracted.... covered with either a Turkey Oven bag

Old school is right. We used to make "tequila verde" by putting buds in a bottle topped up with whatever hard liquor and let it sit in a warm window for a week or two.

I mainly use another method for alcohol tincture, but I like to keep some "old soak" (a second extraction that sits for many months) for when I need an extra sedative, don't care about the taste, and can be foggy in the morning.

I love those turkey bags! For years I was nervous on "alchemy" days. because the whole complex stunk. Another way I use them is to dump my dry, chopped cannabis, a bit of lecithin and B6, and whatever oil I'm using and tie it up tight. This is allowed to swim around in my slow-cooker on high overnight or longer, odor-free. The relatively low heat plus time takes care of the decarb for me, and the smells/flavors of terpines are retained in the oil.

 

[VitaMan]

...What methodology will best retain the terpenes as well as generate THC?..

I like terpy extracts.

There are two ways I have accomplished this- the long, cheap way, and a cheat.

The long cheap way (preferred)

1. I divide my dry bud in half.
2. One portion goes into alcohol for a cold soak
3. While it is soaking, decarb the other half of the medicine.
   
4. My cold extract is filtered and bottled. This retains most of the terpines so is kept cool and dark.
5. The material from the cold extract is combined with the decarbed pot
6. They go in to alcohol for a long, warm soak in a double boiler
7. This is filtered, pressed, and collected.
8. It is placed in a clean double boiler, reduced by half and cooled. This is concentrated, decarbed tincture.
9. The two liquids are combined and voila, a strong, terpy extract.

The cheat way

1. Make decarbed extract as above
2. Purchase/make really terpy shatter or budder
   
3. Dissolve it in increasing amounts of alcohol
4. Combine

 

[olderthandirt]

I like terpy extracts.

There are two ways I have accomplished this- the long, cheap way, and a cheat.

The long cheap way (preferred)

... The two liquids are combined and voila, a strong, terpy extract.
...

Hey-o @VitaMan (-:
I never fail to feel as though I'm re-inventing some "wheel" or another, LOL.

As making tinctures is new to me I made a couple of QWET batches, one de-carbed material, t'other not.
And, after givin' both a trial it occurred to me to combine them to achieve exactly what you describe above. Heh-heh, great minds !

Also did a largish batch of "live" old-school tinc that hit 60 days recently. After running it through coffee filters 3 times it remains DARK green. And tasty to my way o' thinkin'
I believe some degree of de-carb was accomplished by simple time and duration in the alcohol, slight but there.
I haven't reduced this batch, taste so good as is, so 2ml is called for in the morning cup-o-joe. Sweeten that cup with honey and it's a gentle embrace to start the day.

Not that impressed with the QWET I made so it's going into the old-school batch and then I'll reduce it down.

I like tinctures. Need to start another batch (-;

 

[pkands]

My routine practice is to boil tinctures to concentrate them.
As the BP of ethyl alcohol is around 170 F, would significant de-carb happen as I am boiling the tinctures?

 

[Root]

Some decarb will happen at lower temperatures. It would take several hours to fully decarb at 170F and you would mostly loose flavonoids and terpenoids first.
Here is a chart of boiling points

Phytocannabinoids

THC (Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol)
Boiling point: 157° C / 314.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Anti Inflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

CBD (cannabidiol)
Boiling point: 160-180°C / 320-356° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Anti Inflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

CBN (Cannabinol)
Boiling point: 185°C / 365° Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

CBC (cannabichromene)
Boiling point: 220° / 428° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

Δ-8-THC (Δ-8-tetrahydrocannabinol)
Boiling point: 175-178°C / 347-352.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles Δ-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

THCV (Tetrahydrocannabivarin)
Boiling point: < 220°C / <428° Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant


Terpenoid Essential Oil Components of Cannabis

β-Myrcene
Boiling point: 166-168°C / 330.8-334.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic. Anti Inflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

β-Caryophyllene
Boiling point: 119°C / 246.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-Limonene
Boiling point: 177°C / 350.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

Linalool
Boiling point: 198°C / 388.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

Pulegone
Boiling point: 224°C / 435.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-Cineole (Eucalyptol)
Boiling point: 176°C / 348.8° Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Anti Inflammatory, Antinociceptive

α-Pinene
Boiling point: 156°C / 312.8° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

α-Terpineol
Boiling point: 217-218°C / 422.6-424.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

Terpineol-4-ol
Boiling point: 209°C / 408.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-Cymene
Boiling point: 177°C / 350.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor

Borneol
Boiling point: 210°C / 410° Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic

Δ-3-Carene
Boiling point: 168*C / 334.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory


Flavonoid and Phytosterol Components of Cannabis

Apigenin
Boiling point: 178°C / 352.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Anti Inflammatory, Estrogenic

Quercetin
Boiling point: 250°C / 482° Fahrenheit
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

Cannflavin A
Boiling point: 182°C / 359.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

β-Sitosterol
Boiling point: 134°C / 273.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, 5-α-reductase, inhibitor

Not on the list
cannabigerol (CBG)
cannabinoid Antiinflammatory
Boiling point: 56C /125.6 Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Antifungal


Here is a chart showing the time it takes to decarb at different temperatures.

 

[olderthandirt]

When reducing the few batches I've made so far I made a point of keeping temp of the tincture at around 125° to 135°.
I can't for the life of me remember why I settled on that range but it looks as though the luck o' the fool served me well. Again (-:

Preserve the Noids!
(cannabinoids, terpenoids, flavi ..... right )

 

[VitaMan]

....
Here is a chart of boiling points

The boiling point data is very useful. It may even help to choose my vape temperature! Thanks.

 

[VitaMan]

...keeping temp of the tincture at around 125° to 135°.
I can't for the life of me remember why I settled on that range

I use tinctures sublingualy so I keep the temp lowish (no thermometer) so as not to boil away too much of the alcohol. The strongest ethanol I can get legally here is 151 proof (75%) After I mix the reduction with the first extract, it ends up (guessing by taste) around 55%ABV.

I was never satisfied with quick wash. It is probably great if you are making honey oil. I want to get the most medicine I can out of my popcorn, and in my mind QW is too wasteful.