Nutrients CANGEN X MANTIS Buffered Nutrients Test

[Proph]

Yes, feed "PH is incredibly important;" and this product looks optimized for hydro, coco, etc., not soil.

But am I right or wrong (or mixed-up) that what matters most is whether the nutes are taken up by the roots/plant? All these charts with different ranges for each nutrient we are used to thinking in terms of are not relevant, if the nutes themselves have been modified to be more readily taken up by the plant over a wide pH, if each nute had very wide range of bioavailability (each bar in the usual charts much extended in both directions).

And am I right or wrong that if the nutes (likely custom chelated) are bioavailable over a wide pH range, then manually adjusting the pH to some pre-conceived number is not needed? If anything adjusting pH with nutes that don't need adjustment just adds needless salts/ions.

Keep in mind that a good portion of growers, maybe even most, myself included, never bother to even check pH. For 5 years now, I've used AN pH Perfect or now MegaCrop in coco/perlite with what is likely borderline quality water (225-240 ppm) without adjusting pH, using diverse supplements, without excesses or deficiencies (other than normal/expected cal-mag issues with some plants).

You didn't need to check ph with the AN product, and MC, from what I hear, is close to 6.5 when mixed.. But again, you grow in a soilless mix.. The ph questions are about soil growing.. I'm not a scientist in any way, lol, but I've used AN ph perfect, watched many tutorials, ect.. And I don't think your example is how the modifications work. It's the ph that's modified to stay in a certain range. Not the nutrients... What these products are saying is that when you mix them, the ph will fall between the quoted range, so there is no need to check it. I don't believe it is possible to modify an actual nutrient in a way that makes it available outside of its normal range and across a longer range. Again, lol, I'm not a botanist or scientist... But in that scenario, each nutrient, macro/micro would need it's own modification. Im not sure we are there yet as humans. But those nutrient availability/ph charts were made by scientists and botanist.. And if nutes were able be modified to be taken up across any wide range of ph, then there would be no need buffer the ph at all.. It would also make what you stated about the availability charts to be true, we wouldnt need them at all.. They would be irrelevant. But I don't think science is there yet. And if it is, I'm scared, lol! Great discussion though. I didn't mean to hi jack the thread so Im oooouuutttt, lol. I'll watch from the stands like a true fan, haha

 

[GeorgeCloney]

Wow, I think we've opened Pandora's box.

Regardless, I'm sure others such as myself which do not grow hydro.
Would like to see a comparison in soil.
Actually, any soil.

 

[Machamillion]

I run in promix hp and thats what you will get results from. I do not grow in soil if you want info on that or a trial contact them.
I will journal my findings here for anyone interested.

 

[BII]

You didn't need to check ph with the AN product, and MC, from what I hear, is close to 6.5 when mixed.. But again, you grow in a soilless mix.. The ph questions are about soil growing.. I'm not a scientist in any way, lol, but I've used AN ph perfect, watched many tutorials, ect.. And I don't think your example is how the modifications work. It's the ph that's modified to stay in a certain range. Not the nutrients... What these products are saying is that when you mix them, the ph will fall between the quoted range, so there is no need to check it. I don't believe it is possible to modify an actual nutrient in a way that makes it available outside of its normal range and across a longer range. Again, lol, I'm not a botanist or scientist... But in that scenario, each nutrient, macro/micro would need it's own modification. Im not sure we are there yet as humans. But those nutrient availability/ph charts were made by scientists and botanist.. And if nutes were able be modified to be taken up across any wide range of ph, then there would be no need buffer the ph at all.. It would also make what you stated about the availability charts to be true, we wouldnt need them at all.. They would be irrelevant. But I don't think science is there yet. And if it is, I'm scared, lol! Great discussion though. I didn't mean to hi jack the thread so Im oooouuutttt, lol. I'll watch from the stands like a true fan, haha

Yes, contrary to you, I am assuming that "each nutrient, macro/micro would need it's own modification" in order to have its bioavailability optimized over a wider pH ranger. I am assuming that each nutrient source ingredient (and there really aren't that many in plant nutes) is selected and often customized (synthesized), such as MegaCrop uses amino acid-chelated nutrients (for relevant ingredients). As an AN rep told me, it's the high quality proprietary ingredient chelation agents/system used that make the pH Perfect nutes available to the plant over a wide range, that our usual preconceptions about narrow pH range bioavailability with each nute don't apply here. But then, this comes from AN, so it could just be made up to sound good.

As the "Official Product Testing" thread, hopefully eventually someone from the company will tell us more about Mantis (and some basic idea of how it works, and particularly its limitations, such as how bad water can be used?).

 

[Proph]

Yes, contrary to you, I am assuming that "each nutrient, macro/micro would need it's own modification" in order to have its bioavailability optimized over a wider pH ranger. I am assuming that each nutrient source ingredient (and there really aren't that many in plant nutes) is selected and often customized (synthesized), such as MegaCrop uses amino acid-chelated nutrients (for relevant ingredients). As an AN rep told me, it's the high quality proprietary ingredient chelation agents/system used that make the pH Perfect nutes available to the plant over a wide range, that our usual preconceptions about narrow pH range bioavailability with each nute don't apply here. But then, this comes from AN, so it could just be made up to sound good.

As the "Official Product Testing" thread, hopefully eventually someone from the company will tell us more about Mantis (and some basic idea of how it works, and particularly its limitations, such as how bad water can be used?).

Unfortunately it's not official testing... The company is also not a vendor, so there is not a rep on site.. The prefix used is a little misleading.. An official nutrient test will have more than one person testing, and will try to include as many growing styles as possible to address the type of questions we are asking. Mach is the closest thing we have to a rep, lol.. His most recent post said he's growing in pro mix, and that's the medium we will see his results in, and we if want info on soil growing, to contact the company ourselves.. So looks like the ingredients and how it actually works may remain unknown for a bit.

 

[baked in the bluegrass]

I think f.n. Ran this on a couple plants a little ways back now here in afn and thr plants were pretty amazeballs.
definitey was not available in the us at the time tho and I don’t think that’s changed yet.
If I remember correctly it took the whole bottle to do 2 plants, maybe 5-7gal apiece.
so even at that sample price it’s nowhere near as cheap as mc.
That’s not to say it didn’t kick some @ss apparently, I’d try it out if it were available here stateside! Always interested in a 1 size fits all nite solution!

 

[baked in the bluegrass]

Here it is.
Fn using mantis

 

[Machamillion]

Rating: 5 - ‎1 review
MANTIS Buffered Nutrients 1L by CanGenX shipped from Canada = No duties. ... MANTIS Buffered Nutrients is a medical grade ALL-IN-ONE pH buffered plant nutrient concentrate, specifically designed for use with cannabis. .... Contact Us.
I think its available now. from several suppliers.

 

[Machamillion]

Here it is.
Fn using mantis

I mentioned that earlier. I will be evaluating it on a cost vs effectiveness program vs megacrop.

 

[Machamillion]

I'll take t

Unfortunately it's not official testing... The company is also not a vendor, so there is not a rep on site.. The prefix used is a little misleading.. An official nutrient test will have more than one person testing, and will try to include as many growing styles as possible to address the type of questions we are asking. Mach is the closest thing we have to a rep, lol.. His most recent post said he's growing in pro mix, and that's the medium we will see his results in, and we if want info on soil growing, to contact the company ourselves.. So looks like the ingredients and how it actually works may remain unknown for a bit.

he official badge down if you stop hijacking my thread? deal? The reason I gave website info and told you to contact is because you are asking me questions about soil and other things that I cannot answer yet as my info pack will not be here til tomorrow. I haven't even started the test yet. And It is a test I said I would do for them .I did not find them here, I did the research and sourced them out myself jftr.