New Grower Animatey fumbles photo periods: Royal Queen Critical DWC w/ TOPLED

[Animatey]

Hello yall ;D

I plan on journaling this photoperiod plant start to finish. So far she is on day 17.


Nutrients and Medium

So far I have been using Canna aqua vega, Botanicare Cal mag+, Hygrozyme, and h202.

I have just cut out the hygrozyme because I am trying to see why the PH is rising like crazy.

Was going from 5.2 up to 8 in about 24 hours... Now I start at 5.5 and it stabilizes at about 6.1 (now that I have cut out the hygroyme), but it could still be rising abnormally... hard to say.

I am using a single 5 gallon DWC setup. I washed the clay pellets until the water ran clear, then I soaked them for 72 hours in 5.0 PH RO water.

I am using a 3 watt actual draw aquarium pump into a couple airstones in the bucket. No water pump for top feed this time as they are a major pain in the ass for clumsy people like me who constantly pump them out into the grow room etc :\

Today she is at day 17 and I am feeding at about 400 PPM pure base nutes + 3% H202 at 3ml/gal.

Lighting

Using an LED from TOPLED, it's called the "old model" and has an actual draw of 120 watts (though it's called like a 300 watt).

The distance is at 18 inches because node spaces are staying very close together. The manufacturer recommends 12-15 inches, but I think 18 seems ok for her for now.

Ventilation

Using a brand new carbon filter, brand new ducting (ripped out old and installed new), and 190 CFM fan at full speed. Small oscillating fan in there, not oscillating because the room stays cooler if it's pointed at the filter 24/7.

Temps are at a constant 84, with humidity at at continuous 35%... That temp is kind of high, but she seems ok with it. Though possibly it's why I can't get the light much closer.

Problems :no:

So far, she has wilted once badly... I moved the fan higher in the grow space about 6 inches, came back 2 hours later and she was totally flopped over. Took a couple days of looking seriously warped and cock-eyed before she returned to normal after that...

The PH is also constantly rising with the products I am using. I cut out the hygrozyme, and am just using base nutes and h202 for now, and that seems to be a lot more stable, but still rising... Will keep the thread updated with pics and info.

Goals


I am hoping to get about 3 ounces off this plant, and harvest by middle / late march. With 120 watts, 3 ounces is a bit high to hope for actually.. so maybe call it 2.5 with 3 being a nice bonus if it happened, and 1 or less ounces being the most likely due to my actual abilities lol...


Thanks for stopping by, and good luck on your grows!

 

[gone1]

Niiice it looks almost like my setup, this will be interesting.
Count me in^^

 

[Animatey]

Day 27

Problems :slaps:

Well she has had a few... she is stunted I would say for day 27 but I honestly don't know anymore hahaha

:Sharing One:



TEMPS... JEEBUS TEMPS...

Temps have been an issue... They max out at 86 at hotest and average about 82-84 otherwise (lights on). High 70's at rare points at night during a 4 hour dark period. Water temps are at 77-79 x_X

And that is after a lot of tinkering to get it as low as I could... before that it was maxing at 88 and the water temps were 80+ :no:

I don't really know what is the problem with the temps...

I have tried everything I can think of without rethinking the whole setup.

I have a 200 CFM fan on top of the wardrobe pulling through a carbon filter which sits on the floor (4 inch ducting).

I have a small fan inside the wardrobe that is on high and produces significant circulation (and cools the DWC bucket a degree as well while pointed at it).



Here is what I have done to combat the high since I started measuring temps more carefully:

• Moved the air pump outside the wardrobe
• Changed out my LED for a cooler running slightly lower watt LED of near same spectrum
• Taped up the top lid of the DWC with foil tape
• Cut slit in back of wardrobe where carbon filter can pull in some outside air

This got my water temp down to about 79F, which I am not happy about...

Ambient temp in the room are at about 75-77F.


In fear of root rot and a sad plant, I increased my air pump to a 6 watt pump, which mainly goes into a 4 inch disk. The bubbles are pretty much at max... MAX.... very tiny bubbles but it's pretty insano in there.



What can I do to get the temp down in there?

Any clever ideas?


Deficiency

I am dealing with what I believe is a mag deficiency.




I have been daily spraying for 2 days now with RO water + 5ml/gal Cal Mag Plus (250PPM total) and she actually is seeming to green up a bit... I dunno... Still pretty skeletal.




On a positive note PPM and PH have been solid since I stopped using the hygrozyme 10 days ago. I followed her carefully to 600PPM where she settled recently (despite the deficincy...). PH has almost always, with very few brief exceptions stayed between 5.3 and 6.3. There were times when it hit 5.0 and 6.5 but they were brief and quickly rectified. However the roots look healthy, but there are not a lot of them for 27 days I don't think... damn it I forgot to get a pic :\


Using canna Aqua and cal mag plus at 600PPM the first 200PPM being cal mag plus. Tomorrow when I change it out I am thinking of bumping the cal mag plus up to 250 but keeping total ppm at 600 since they stay very close to that number without any real tinkering.


Thanks for stopping by and good luck on your grows!

 

[GodAmJT]

Looking great so far however....


Those temps seem to be okay!!! I did a TON of reading before I took the plunge into buying an LED panel, and every site that I had visited and every blog I had read said that temps going up to 86F were perfectly fine with LEDs.. I had my plants in the mid 80's for a week, and they weren't phased by it.. Part of me thinks your nutes might be a bit high on the ppm though..

Generally, when leaves start to droop down, but the whole plant seems upright, it's a sign of high ppms, which can also lead you to nute lockout of sorts.. I had this problem, as seen by the picture of my auto Jack Herer.. I put her into shock by throwing a 400ppm solution at her, when she was almost a week without food.. If I had been using a DWC, she would have been dead, but the rockwool saved my ass.. Also, constant pH swings are usually a sign that the plant is seeing stress, which could have been from the hygrozyme, not to mention the hygrozyme makes more nutes available to the plant, faster.. I use Floralicious+ and it does about the same thing, so the last 2 grows, I was at a ppm of just under 250, and the plants still produced great buds!!


Hope that helps, and I hope to see you grow this bad bitch out!!!!!

 

[KsjAuto]

Subd:
I can see that your carbon filter is sitting at the floor,,
If you move that to the top of your grow room, your room will get cooler..
You whant cold air comming in at the bottom, and hot air out the top :thumbs:
Just for kicks, tjeck your temps(top and bottom) before and after you move that filter
If your using ro water,, 200-300 ppm cal mag should be enough. Don´t quote me on that one:tiphat:
Someone with led experience might give you some pointers on that one

Stay green
:wiggle:

 

[Animatey]

Looking great so far however....


Those temps seem to be okay!!! I did a TON of reading before I took the plunge into buying an LED panel, and every site that I had visited and every blog I had read said that temps going up to 86F were perfectly fine with LEDs.. I had my plants in the mid 80's for a week, and they weren't phased by it.. Part of me thinks your nutes might be a bit high on the ppm though..

Generally, when leaves start to droop down, but the whole plant seems upright, it's a sign of high ppms, which can also lead you to nute lockout of sorts.. I had this problem, as seen by the picture of my auto Jack Herer.. I put her into shock by throwing a 400ppm solution at her, when she was almost a week without food.. If I had been using a DWC, she would have been dead, but the rockwool saved my ass.. Also, constant pH swings are usually a sign that the plant is seeing stress, which could have been from the hygrozyme, not to mention the hygrozyme makes more nutes available to the plant, faster.. I use Floralicious+ and it does about the same thing, so the last 2 grows, I was at a ppm of just under 250, and the plants still produced great buds!!


Hope that helps, and I hope to see you grow this bad bitch out!!!!!

Thanks man! Your description of droopy leaves and perky plant is pretty much spot on... Is pretty weird to look at... Half the plant is happy the other half all dropped down. I'm going to keep watching the ppms as they seem fairly stable at 600 where when I was lower the ppm would drop about 20-40 within 6-8 hours. This one is a photoperiod and seems more hungry than the autos I have grown.

Subd:
I can see that your carbon filter is sitting at the floor,,
If you move that to the top of your grow room, your room will get cooler..
You whant cold air comming in at the bottom, and hot air out the top :thumbs:
Just for kicks, tjeck your temps(top and bottom) before and after you move that filter
If your using ro water,, 200-300 ppm cal mag should be enough. Don´t quote me on that one:tiphat:
Someone with led experience might give you some pointers on that one

Stay green
:wiggle:

Ksj u the man! I can't remember whose setup I was looking at but I talked to someone recently about moving my filter up off the floor... If that will make it cooler then I sure as hell better figure it out because it will also give me some much needed room on the floor. Thanks man! I will start figuring out how I can get that filter up there

 

[Grey Bear]

Ani,

I like the setup.
Cab temps are OK. (KsjA is on target about raising your filter helping the cab temp. Bungee type cords work great)
Rez temps are a bit high and I think is probably the main reason for looking a bit wimpy. (It doesn't look terrible) I have used frozen 1 liter bottles to keep my rez temps down with great success.
You will probably need 4 bottles. as you will most likely need to use 2 a day, and ideally you want them frozen solid. (it is easier to manage your temp, if that is a constant)
The plants do not mind the fluctuation in rez temp as long as it isn't too extreme.
I think your ppm is on track, CA website says at this stage, you should be between, 550-750ppm (Hanna scale).
Stable or slowly falling ppm is want you want to see.
I would drop the H202 and reintroduce the Hygrozyme per Mf directions on your next rez change. I think the H202 may be the culprit on the ph bobbles
I would use the Botanicare Cal mag+ per Mf directions
Lighting? what schedule are you running now? when do you plan to flip?

I haven't grown this strain before, so I am not sure how much she will stretch, but you will want to keep that in mind for the flip, as tripling in height is pretty normal.


Good luck
I am subbed now.

 

[Animatey]

Ani,

I like the setup.
Cab temps are OK. (KsjA is on target about raising your filter helping the cab temp. Bungee type cords work great)
Rez temps are a bit high and I think is probably the main reason for looking a bit wimpy. (It doesn't look terrible) I have used frozen 1 liter bottles to keep my rez temps down with great success.
You will probably need 4 bottles. as you will most likely need to use 2 a day, and ideally you want them frozen solid. (it is easier to manage your temp, if that is a constant)
The plants do not mind the fluctuation in rez temp as long as it isn't too extreme.
I think your ppm is on track, CA website says at this stage, you should be between, 550-750ppm (Hanna scale).
Stable or slowly falling ppm is want you want to see.
I would drop the H202 and reintroduce the Hygrozyme per Mf directions on your next rez change. I think the H202 may be the culprit on the ph bobbles
I would use the Botanicare Cal mag+ per Mf directions
Lighting? what schedule are you running now? when do you plan to flip?

I haven't grown this strain before, so I am not sure how much she will stretch, but you will want to keep that in mind for the flip, as tripling in height is pretty normal.


Good luck
I am subbed now.

Greyyyy bearrrrr!!! Thanks so much for stopping by... Lawd knows I need all the help I can get...

I am definitely going to go get those 4 bottles of water tonight as well as some bungi coords. I am glad you mentioned the bungis because I was about to go hardware store and have them cut chain link which would be a much more involved deal.

Lighting right now is 20/4.

Based on what I have seen about this strain in other grow journals is she should go from about 1ft tall, to 3ft tall when the flip happens... She is about a foot tall now but I don't think anywhere near ready for flip, but I don't know shit about photoperiods honestly, and probably not much more about autoflowers either lol.....

I really don't know when to flip because all of my plans were sort of foiled by the plant being in poor health...

My plan was to FIM/Top the plant after about 5 pairs of fan leaves on the trunk, then flip 2 weeks later, but she has looked a little sickly since day 1 so I haven't done any training at all to avoid any more stress on her tiny frail little plant ass...

Definitely open to ideas on the timing of the flip... My light can easily go up 2 more feet, and I am hoping to start training once she gets healthy.

Thanks again for stopping by and subbing, my probability of success on this grow just went wayyy up ;D !!

 

[steelrat]

Hey i had that trouble with Hygrozyme then i got Rot Stop and no probs.

Looking bang on for a couple of weeks in hydro.


All the best,

steely

 

[Grey Bear]

Another thing to consider is how well you are shaking your products before adding them to your solution.
Shake well, means at least 30 seconds or until completely mixed, which ever is longer.
When testing my friends and students, I found most people shake products requiring it about 5-15 seconds and think shaking it faster makes up for less time.
CA products have a ph buffers that may not perform as well if it is not well shaken.
As for enzyme products, I have no stakes in hygrozyme, but I have not had issues with it at mfg dosages.
I have not used Rot Stop, but it may be worth a shot if you find the problem reoccuring with the Hygrozyme.

As for topping or not and when to flip.
Need to know,
had you considered revegging this after harvest?
Or possibly taking cuttings a few weeks before flip?