Live Stoner Chat Live Stoner Chat - Apr-Jun '25

[Badfinger]

 

[Badfinger]

 

[Badfinger]

 

[Fermented_Fruitz]

the pathway and interactions of CO2, CaCO3 in water is a bit tangled and runs in something of a interwoven circle... pH plays a huge role, and all this is just in water alone, to say nothing of all the other influencing chemistry going on with nutes, the medium, microbes, etc.,...
google it all and you'll see what I mean LOL!

CaCO3 by itself in water is poorly soluble, What drives it to dissolve is when CO2 goes into solution, creating carbonic acid... there's your acidity and dissolving power. Again, it's a very weak reaction across the board so level of dissolved stuff is low, hence in part the low availability to the plant.
pH buffering occurs when free H+ gets snagged by carbonate (CO3--) to form bicarbonate (HCO3-). This is why RO/Di water itself has no capacity to buffer pH, there's no mineral content. CO2 does get in of course and will weakly acidify the RO/Di water... But in hard water the whole reaction gig comes into play.

Free Ca++ in all this mess is scarce as is, but this is the form the plant takes it up in only! What's more, as a double + charged ion, it's very reactive and will hook up with something pretty much instantly; what that is varies of course, especially in your grow... Hook up to something that isn't readily dissolvable in water and it's locked out, unavailable... Hydro growers may learn the hard way with Ca and sulfates, which will form gypsum as a flocculant glop in the tank! Or it locks up with some other nute ion, same deal, there but not available...

All this and more is going on in the root zone, a lot of it as a "flash moment" of availability next to the roots where surface cells react to snag them before something else does...
Chelation is the master here, which protects charged ions from reacting before the plant can take it up,... humic-fulvic, amino acids, synthetic types (like EDTA) are chelators. They 'smother" the charge, physically surround the ion, but don't actually form a real chemical bond (it's all weak charge attractions). This keeps them available until they bump into the right root cells that have the "biochemical machinery" to pop the chelator off and uptake the ion, and/or in some cases with fulvic and amino's, the whole complex get snagged and bagged... Fulvic is usable by the plant as a C source, amino's get used as is too so win-win there!

Yeah, Ca is in many products, always in soil, even Promix (soilless medium) has lime in it. Coco, nada! And that's a whole other ball of wax right there, hey? It can be a bitch to figure it all out, not get too much from various inputs and cause antagonistic uptake issues, or conversely not have enough which has a lot of negative consequences... Always keep in mind the cumulative apsects of this too. Too much Ca-Mg is more likely to cause problems as it is to fix one!

KingRatt, fighting hard water is an endless beating, I know too well... Get an RO system, no need to have a deionizer too (just one more thing to have to replace, $$). Just don't use the RO water by itself for various reasons... Personally, before I mix in anything else, I use filtered tap water to blend with, getting to about 150ppm (or water with just that)... I also use water from a self fill place (about 15ppm), "drinking water" which has some mineral content for better taste and healthiness... Cheap and easy! Some store have machines too, same thing...

I am far more curious how i go about getting a Cartman badge???

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Hell I seen blazing saddles in the theatre, and dont remember that.

I have a feeling there's a lot you don't remember.

 

[Fermented_Fruitz]

@PinkyNotTheBrain was this u going to pick up the work vehicle??

I see the empty easter basket just waiting on a candy deposit!

 

[Fermented_Fruitz]

I have a feeling there's a lot you don't remember.

 

[Badfinger]

I have a feeling there's a lot you don't remember.

U sure is sharp. Thank god I started out with a high IQ, atleast I still can tie my own shoes.

 

[Fermented_Fruitz]

 

[KingRatt]

the pathway and interactions of CO2, CaCO3 in water is a bit tangled and runs in something of a interwoven circle... pH plays a huge role, and all this is just in water alone, to say nothing of all the other influencing chemistry going on with nutes, the medium, microbes, etc.,...
google it all and you'll see what I mean LOL!

CaCO3 by itself in water is poorly soluble, What drives it to dissolve is when CO2 goes into solution, creating carbonic acid... there's your acidity and dissolving power. Again, it's a very weak reaction across the board so level of dissolved stuff is low, hence in part the low availability to the plant.
pH buffering occurs when free H+ gets snagged by carbonate (CO3--) to form bicarbonate (HCO3-). This is why RO/Di water itself has no capacity to buffer pH, there's no mineral content. CO2 does get in of course and will weakly acidify the RO/Di water... But in hard water the whole reaction gig comes into play.

Free Ca++ in all this mess is scarce as is, but this is the form the plant takes it up in only! What's more, as a double + charged ion, it's very reactive and will hook up with something pretty much instantly; what that is varies of course, especially in your grow... Hook up to something that isn't readily dissolvable in water and it's locked out, unavailable... Hydro growers may learn the hard way with Ca and sulfates, which will form gypsum as a flocculant glop in the tank! Or it locks up with some other nute ion, same deal, there but not available...

All this and more is going on in the root zone, a lot of it as a "flash moment" of availability next to the roots where surface cells react to snag them before something else does...
Chelation is the master here, which protects charged ions from reacting before the plant can take it up,... humic-fulvic, amino acids, synthetic types (like EDTA) are chelators. They 'smother" the charge, physically surround the ion, but don't actually form a real chemical bond (it's all weak charge attractions). This keeps them available until they bump into the right root cells that have the "biochemical machinery" to pop the chelator off and uptake the ion, and/or in some cases with fulvic and amino's, the whole complex get snagged and bagged... Fulvic is usable by the plant as a C source, amino's get used as is too so win-win there!

Yeah, Ca is in many products, always in soil, even Promix (soilless medium) has lime in it. Coco, nada! And that's a whole other ball of wax right there, hey? It can be a bitch to figure it all out, not get too much from various inputs and cause antagonistic uptake issues, or conversely not have enough which has a lot of negative consequences... Always keep in mind the cumulative apsects of this too. Too much Ca-Mg is more likely to cause problems as it is to fix one!

KingRatt, fighting hard water is an endless beating, I know too well... Get an RO system, no need to have a deionizer too (just one more thing to have to replace, $$). Just don't use the RO water by itself for various reasons... Personally, before I mix in anything else, I use filtered tap water to blend with, getting to about 150ppm (or water with just that)... I also use water from a self fill place (about 15ppm), "drinking water" which has some mineral content for better taste and healthiness... Cheap and easy! Some store have machines too, same thing...

Thats awesome tons of info right there! Will def get an ro soon!!!! Like probably next few days! Saw a cheap system for 50bux on the zon’!