photoxauto breeding shortcut?

[Wclazerdub]

breeding shortcut?

1. take feminized autoflower pollen to a photoperiod.
2. grow out some seeds till you find an autoflower.
3. hit that autoflower with colloidal silver
4. pollinate an autoflower
5. stable feminized photoxauto seeds in 5 steps

too easy right?

Let me know!!!!


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[Proph]

breeding shortcut?

1. take feminized autoflower pollen to a photoperiod.
2. grow out some seeds till you find an autoflower.
3. hit that autoflower with colloidal silver
4. pollinate an autoflower
5. stable feminized photoxauto seeds in 5 steps

too easy right?

Let me know!!!!


Check out my diary/journal:

LAzerBEAN grower profile - GrowDiaries

Cultivator likes seed bank , nutrient , grow technique . LAzerBEAN grower profile on GrowDiaries. Explore grow logs.

growdiaries.com

That will work.. It's fundamentally backwards.. But it will work.
I mean, why do all that just to end up with a cross you need to work until it's stable? Why not start with stable genetics and select for traits along the way s that the end result is already stable?

But yes, that is a pollen chucking short cut. It is not considered "breeding" though.

 

[Wclazerdub]

the abbreviated version is a lot like pollen chucking.
sure you can grow out some of the autos for better selection.
if you did this... what type would it be? (like F1,F2...etc)

 

[Proph]

the abbreviated version is a lot like pollen chucking.
sure you can grow out some of the autos for better selection.
if you did this... what type would it be? (like F1,F2...etc)

Filial generations are unaffected. So it would be the same. So for instance.. Step 2 of your process would be growing out the f1's..lets say you find two bad ass autos in the f1 cross that have all of the traits you want... If you reverse one and pollinate the other, those seeds would be f2, and so on. There is no change there. Standard F1, F2 process. The definition of a "stable" cross is when almost all, if not all, of the seeds have a uniform shape, odor, size ect. Basically stabilizing a strain is taking the possible phenos from 4-5 possible phenos, down to 1 or 2 possible phenos.

Also.. Depending on the timing of your steps.. Step three can be taken off.. I mean, per step one, you already have "reversed fem auto pollen"... Just save that and use it on an auto you find in the f1 stock. No need to reverse another plant just to collect more pollen, unless you are selecting that new plant for specific traits it has that your original pollen donor didn't have.

Step 4 of your process will create a highly unstable f1 hybrid line that you will have to work (continue crossing and selecting for traits) until you get the pheno types down to one or two.. Three phenos is considered stable in some cases. No telling how many pheno types your f1 cross will show. It could start at 6 phenos that you would need to work down to about half of that number.

For example, in the photo period world strains like magnum opus are considered highly stable. You might hear the terms "breeding stock" or breeding tool" as well.. Magnum Opus is at f12 last I checked, and every female is damn near identical to each other.

There really are no short cuts to "breeding".. We can chuck pollen all day and make as many seeds as we want and grow those out.. But breeding has no short cuts. Every short cut taken in breeding will come back to haunt you, or the people buying/growing your seeds, in the form of recessive genes.

 

[Shiva's Mistress]

breeding shortcut?

1. take feminized autoflower pollen to a photoperiod.
2. grow out some seeds till you find an autoflower.
3. hit that autoflower with colloidal silver
4. pollinate an autoflower
5. stable feminized photoxauto seeds in 5 steps

By usual thought that auto "a" is recessive and photo "P" dominant, isn't "take feminized autoflower pollen to a photoperiod", isn't this first cross to F1 going to end up with all aP genetics, which will be photo phenotypes; and then it'll take a second generation F2 to get PPa:aP:aa, i.e. 25% aa full auto genetics?

But you could take the F1, all aP or Pa, photo-phenotype expression with auto genes, reverse that and cross with an auto (hopefully the original auto strain*), and get 50% aa fully auto and 50% aP or Pa, photo-phenotype with auto genes.
* Because if it's crossed with a different auto strain, a three way cross, getting the stability is going to be even harder!

And F2 is known to be the least stable, with the greatest range, e.g. 25% photo, 25% auto and 50% semi-auto with photo phenotype expression. F1 is often a kind of mid-point between parents. So it'll then take a few generations of crossing and back-crossing with the aa fully auto F2 generation to get stable genotypes and phenotypes.

So, not sure how easy it'll be, or whether it's a shortcut.

 

[Shiva's Mistress]

If you're interested in the theory of breeding, I'd highly recommend Robert Connell Clarke's Marijuana Botany. It may be a bit old now, but it's a classic, and has excellent information.

 

[Wclazerdub]

Filial generations are unaffected. So it would be the same. So for instance.. Step 2 of your process would be growing out the f1's..lets say you find two bad ass autos in the f1 cross that have all of the traits you want... If you reverse one and pollinate the other, those seeds would be f2, and so on. There is no change there. Standard F1, F2 process. The definition of a "stable" cross is when almost all, if not all, of the seeds have a uniform shape, odor, size ect. Basically stabilizing a strain is taking the possible phenos from 4-5 possible phenos, down to 1 or 2 possible phenos.

Also.. Depending on the timing of your steps.. Step three can be taken off.. I mean, per step one, you already have "reversed fem auto pollen"... Just save that and use it on an auto you find in the f1 stock. No need to reverse another plant just to collect more pollen, unless you are selecting that new plant for specific traits it has that your original pollen donor didn't have.

Step 4 of your process will create a highly unstable f1 hybrid line that you will have to work (continue crossing and selecting for traits) until you get the pheno types down to one or two.. Three phenos is considered stable in some cases. No telling how many pheno types your f1 cross will show. It could start at 6 phenos that you would need to work down to about half of that number.

For example, in the photo period world strains like magnum opus are considered highly stable. You might hear the terms "breeding stock" or breeding tool" as well.. Magnum Opus is at f12 last I checked, and every female is damn near identical to each other.

There really are no short cuts to "breeding".. We can chuck pollen all day and make as many seeds as we want and grow those out.. But breeding has no short cuts. Every short cut taken in breeding will come back to haunt you, or the people buying/growing your seeds, in the form of recessive genes.

I was under the impression that all f1's would be photo but with a recessive auto trait that would be expressed by breeding two F1's.

 

[Proph]

I was under the impression that all f1's would be photo but with a recessive auto trait that would be expressed by breeding two F1's.

This is true, and has been my personal experience. I wasn't sure if you knew that based on your step 2. I didn't want to open up a whole different can of worms.. But yes, that's the norm.. F1's will be photo periods.. F2's will be 25% auto.. F3's 50% and full auto at f4.. So people cross two of the autos from the f2's to make a full auto.. But the selection options are minimal at 25%.

 

[Wclazerdub]

This is true, and has been my personal experience. I wasn't sure if you knew that based on your step 2. I didn't want to open up a whole different can of worms.. But yes, that's the norm.. F1's will be photo periods.. F2's will be 25% auto.. F3's 50% and full auto at f4.. So people cross two of the autos from the f2's to make a full auto.. But the selection options are minimal at 25%.

right on.
what percent would be auto if you took the same feminized auto pollen to an F1?
my guess would be 25%.

 

[Bushdoctor Mon]

What's up with this, is it a god send or type one error. "Moby DickXXL fem" Auto under no stress,excellent growing SEEDED OUT in BIG way!!!! Great percentage of seeds looks mature.Naver saw a banana,and other plants with it was not affected.
Asking since topic is breeding, and seem like I've made a short cut without knowing. Wonder if worth breeding out some of these;as would hate to continue Hermorp breedings.