New Grower Yet another thread concerning cal mag

[Coffee Monster]

don't freek out it's amonium N u wont get any bad from it


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I don't think N is bad lol, it just adds to the amount of N my girls are getting too much

 

[Waira]

Coffee'-- GH CaliMagic/GO CaMg+ ("organic") are 1-0-0, and 0-0-0 respectively; CaMg+ is all carbonate based in a fermented sugar base (my fav'), while the other is their fully synthetic formula using nitrate in part... the Botanicare is great stuff, but also has lots of other goodies in there, including amino acids which I believe will figure in the total N content %,... it's not bad for N really, compared to AN's (4-0-0) version and especially that RAW product- -- funny, I was just helping somebody in Sick Bay when this product came up,... true it's used in relatively tiny amounts, and usually isn't an issue,... but N sources do add up, and worse, N is one of those nutrients that is taken up whether the plant needs it or not; what doesn't get used, is stored in other forms, but there's a limit to that before toxicity issue start manifesting,... How are you growing? The CaMg+ may not be the best choice for hydro, that's what the Calimagic is about though it can be used in any grow style... Sanguine has suggested good alternatives too!

As for the relative availability of Ca-nitrate vs. -carbonate, I'm not buying there's a significant difference:
--the entire molecule isn't absorbed, the process just doesn't work that way...
--this is an aqueous solution, in other words these ionic compounds are dissolved and separated into their component +/- ions, and it's in these forms that they get absorbed,... well, all except carbonate, which in water under typical conditions for growers, becomes (instantly basically) bicarbonate (HCO3-), not absorbed by plants,.. but this bicarb-carbonate part of the molecule is what involved with pH buffering in solution... (that's a whole separate lecture right there!) ... sometimes this carbonate is helpful, but in hydro, with lower pH range demands, it's not, hence the alternate formulations,...
-- be careful mixing epsoms with dedicated Ca-Mg products,... the Ca and SO4 from the epsoms can cross react if in sufficient concentrations and form gypsum as a flocculant precipitant...

>>> about ammonium uptake, that's incorrect; it too will get absorbed just like nitrate does, and is actually more likely to trigger toxicity issues because of how it's metabolized and stored,... one reason why most canna' fert's use a high nitrate:ammonium ratio,... and the RAW does not have ammonium in it; besides, ammonium is cation, n/a for this purpose-->

RAW CALCIUM: structure

RAW Calcium/Mag contains 15% calcium and 3% magnesium. RAW Calcium/Mag has optimized the ratio of each element in a Water soluble formulation of calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate so that it doesn’t leave the media salty. This product is a stand alone Calcium / Mag supplement. Due to its low dilution rates a little RAW Calcium / Mag goes a long ways. Its also ideal for preventing deficiencies, treating deficiencies and for creating optimal recipe solutions. Works in conjunction with all nutrient and feeding programs.

 

[Coffee Monster]

Thanks @Waira
I'll have to re-read that a time or two, looks like all the info I need. I'm in soil and was recently hit with a bad mag def, then when I went up on my Botanicare dose I noted the possible connection with some n tox symptoms I have been seein. Looks like I may need to alternate a moderate dose of Botanicare with a little epsoms or go to the GO brand

Feel free to check out the grow log if you care too

 

[woody]

Amazing depth of knowledge as always @Waira bro

I came across some other suppliments where the Ca is from calcium chloride?
I take it this should be avoided altogether
Or would this be ok if using ro water?

 

[TehSnow]

At least you can get alternatives. All I have available without going on intl. shops like Amazon is AN's CalMag (4-0-0) and Grotek's CalMax (2-0-0). Switched to CalMax yesterday

 

[stepside]

Thanks @Waira
I'll have to re-read that a time or two, looks like all the info I need. I'm in soil and was recently hit with a bad mag def, then when I went up on my Botanicare dose I noted the possible connection with some n tox symptoms I have been seein. Looks like I may need to alternate a moderate dose of Botanicare with a little epsoms or go to the GO brand

Feel free to check out the grow log if you care too

If you're growing in dirt, when you mix a batch throw in a couple handfuls of ground or powdered oyster shell...

 

[Discretepete2676]

@Coffee Monster, how are you using the calmag? I use 100-150ppm (1ml per gallon) of calimagic for my base before I mix my nutrients in my RO water. What's your base water ppm? I don't go above 100-150ppm base on feed days but on water days, usually one or twice a week, kick up your calmag supplement on water days to between 200-300ppm since you won't be adding nutrients with it. That little amount of N isnt the threshold causing the N tox. That's just simple over fert I'm thinking to be honest. Do you water until run off? Feed everytime or do you do waterings to break down salts in your medium

 

[waxxman]

@Coffee Monster, how are you using the calmag? I use 100-150ppm (1ml per gallon) of calimagic for my base before I mix my nutrients in my RO water. What's your base water ppm? I don't go above 100-150ppm base on feed days but on water days, usually one or twice a week, kick up your calmag supplement on water days to between 200-300ppm since you won't be adding nutrients with it. That little amount of N isnt the threshold causing the N tox. That's just simple over fert I'm thinking to be honest. Do you water until run off? Feed everytime or do you do waterings to break down salts in your medium

I normally slam 5ml per gal of Cal mag[emoji44]

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[Discretepete2676]

I normally slam 5ml per gal of Cal mag[emoji44]

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That's cool on water days, but on feed days that's such a high ppm to start on its own. If I use full strength like that it starts me at like 300ppm or more. Ppm/TDs measurements have been super helpful since i started using a meter and help me stay on track with how much I'm giving the girls and what they can take.

 

[Waira]

--

:smoking:...thanks Sanguine and Coffee-- that was a bit of an insomniac-attack rambling there,...- it's one of those subjects that's hard to pull a single string of explanation out of without dragging up all the other things linked to it! ... Which supplement has CaCl2? it's uncommon, but OK... Truth is Cl is a true micronutrient, critical in the process of photosynthesis,... but I emphasize micro-.... the chlorine in water is often chlorine dioxide ClO2, an gas dissolved in solution, which will gas-off if left to sit for a while; chloramine is different, and won't gas-off, so must be removed by RO or treated chemically to lock it up,... as such, as far as I can tell, ClO2 doesn't break down in water into free Cl-, so as a source of Cl, tap water isn't it,..some ferts do have it in there though, and I know more than a few people that use a tiny pinch of salt now and again in their water/feeds (soil/soilless growers), despite the Na+ which can become toxic at low levels. As long as there's plenty of water inputs, this isn't a significant source of salt build-up,...
Coffee, I need to know you nute's, dosage and frequency to evaluate you N input to see if the Botanicare is that big of a contributor, and confirm the N tox and Mg defc.,... but the epsoms are great for Mg defc., can be used as both soil drench and foliar spray (fastest way in BTW)... GO CaMg+ is fine too especially if you're using LED's,... and Stepside here makes a solid point about adding some extra Ca using oystershell,... but this has no Mg in it, like Ag'/garden lime and dolomite do,... dolomite is however the slowest acting of them all, so if you use it,make sure it's near-powder in texture, or it won't break down fast enough to be of much help,... add it ahead of planting time if you can, by weeks even,.. and do yourself a huge favor, buy an Accurate * soil pH probe! nothin beat direct in-pot measurement, and this is the best tool for the job and the $$ ....