Why are different pH ranges recommended for different mediums?

tronN00dles

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Hi there.

It is my understanding that plants in soil do better in the 6.0 - 7.0 pH range, whereas plants in soilless mediums do better in the 5.5 - 6.5 pH range. Why is this exactly? I realize it has to do with optimal nutrient absorption, but why is one nutrient better absorbed at a certain pH in soil, but a different pH in coco or peat?

-tronN00dles
 
Hi there.

It is my understanding that plants in soil do better in the 6.0 - 7.0 pH range, whereas plants in soilless mediums do better in the 5.5 - 6.5 pH range. Why is this exactly? I realize it has to do with optimal nutrient absorption, but why is one nutrient better absorbed at a certain pH in soil, but a different pH in coco or peat?

-tronN00dles
Just to be clear, you are talking about the ph of the mixed nutrients correct? If so, it has to do with the cec exchanges and their optimal ranges. Coco has a lower cec than soil.. Thus lower ph recommendations.. Hydro (water only) has a lower cec than both.
 
Just to be clear, you are talking about the ph of the mixed nutrients correct? If so, it has to do with the cec exchanges and their optimal ranges. Coco has a lower cec than soil.. Thus lower ph recommendations.. Hydro (water only) has a lower cec than both.

Thanks. I'll have to read up on Cation Exchange Capacity. This is exactly what I was looking for.

-tronN00dles
 
I think pH is overrated as a cause of problems, for example even if pH 5.8 is better for hydro, then if you are having problems and your solution is 6.3 the problem will not be anything to do with pH according to what I've seen with my own eyes. I used to run at about 6.3 in hydro 20 years ago, and I moved over to about 5.8 which was fine, but in the current grow I've moved back over to 6.3 and it looks even better. I've always been a bit suspicious of the assertion that hydro needs lower pH, however it seems to be something that everyone agrees on, but my own experiments in a dead simple hydro does not bear it out. However the solution does tend to try and go lower and I have to keep raising it, so it does get a sample of ranges. But even if lower is fine, higher doesn't hurt at all in my experience. This is my current bean that's been running at about 6.2 most of the time.
 

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I think pH is overrated as a cause of problems, for example even if pH 5.8 is better for hydro, then if you are having problems and your solution is 6.3 the problem will not be anything to do with pH according to what I've seen with my own eyes. I used to run at about 6.3 in hydro 20 years ago, and I moved over to about 5.8 which was fine, but in the current grow I've moved back over to 6.3 and it looks even better. I've always been a bit suspicious of the assertion that hydro needs lower pH, however it seems to be something that everyone agrees on, but my own experiments in a dead simple hydro does not bear it out. However the solution does tend to try and go lower and I have to keep raising it, so it does get a sample of ranges. But even if lower is fine, higher doesn't hurt at all in my experience. This is my current bean that's been running at about 6.2 most of the time.
It depends on what stage in growth you are I suppose. Different chemicals (ie, N, P, K or the micro's) are better absorbed at a specific range. I have a chart at home for pepper for example. That's why I let the pH swing from 5.5 - 6.5 when growing in hydro as all substances will get in their 'goldie lock' zone.
 
Wikipedia has a decent article on CEC here:

As does Cornell University here:

And here, for the more tolerant and patient of you, is my interpretation of what I have found on CEC - the OP did ask about why:

CEC comes primarily from two different soil or growing medium components. In normal outdoor soils, a significant portion of the CEC comes from the clay component of the soil, and importantly, the CEC of clay is not affected by pH. The other major contributor to CEC is organic matter, and, unlike the CEC from clay, its CEC changes with pH.

Most of the growing media us indoor growers use have little clay in them, so the CEC's of the stuff we use is usually controlled by organic material, and will change with pH. Hence availability of calcium, magnesium, and potassium especially will vary with the pH of our media, so managing pH and allowing it to vary within an appropriate range is generally a good idea.

Hydroponics is special. Pure hydroponics without growing medium has no CEC, but it is perhaps more accurate to say that CEC is irrelevant - all nutrients are in immediately available ionic form. Their availability is not affected by the ability of a growing medium to hold and release cations - whatever we put in the nutrient solution is available, period. This allows tailoring and controlling ratios of nutrients but it means that the grower has complete responsibility for doing this. No medium, no interference with nutrient availability, but also no help from the stabilizing influence of soil or growing medium. Ph still needs to be controlled for plant health in pure hydroponics, but not because of its influence on CEC, but rather because of other direct influences on nutrient absorption from solution.

"Hydroponics" with coco is different again. There is a good discussion of this medium and its CEC here:


Bottom line for "hydroponics" with coco is that it has special CEC behaviour - namely it starts with too much potassium and/or sodium attached to its CEC sites, and very little calcium and magnesium. If it's CEC sites are not loaded up with calcium and magnesium by initial buffering, the coco will bind up the calcium and magnesium while releasing the potassium. Result, calcium and magnesium deficiency, and/or lockout due to excess potassium. According to the Advanced Nutrients blurb on their coco line, iron is also part of this CEC issue with coco. Also, since coco's CEC behaviour is due to organic CEC sites, it behaviour is dependent on pH. Bottom line is that coco needs to be buffered with calcium and magnesium, and coco specific nutrient design and pH managegment is a good idea. The notion that coco is hydroponics reflects the need for detailed management of nutrients, but this management is different than hydroponics with no medium.

As if all this were not complicated enough, stuff we add or don't add to our soils or growing media change CEC behaviour. Vermiculite has very decent CEC, for example, expanded clay balls, specific CEC behaviour as well. If we mix coco into our peat mix, we proportionally change the CEC behaviour of the combined medium. And so bloody on. The bottom line in all of this is that the specific behaviour of nutrients in our grow will vary with media components we put in there, and with how we manage our nutrients and pH. Given the complexity, trying to reinvent the wheel is not necessarily a good idea, It is best to stick with the specifics of a proven approach, especially when dealing with so called "soil-less" or "hydroponic" media.

If you got this far in this blurb, congratulations, you likely have more than enough patience to grow nice weed. :biggrin:
 
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