New Grower Ventilation - Air Ionizer, No Carbon Filter

Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
28
Reputation
0
Reaction score
23
Points
0
I have a lot of open indoor space but close neighbors.
As far as ventilation goes has anyone tryed using an air ionizer that is just as effective for keeping the smell down, and the plants in a healthy environment? I don't have the necessary skills to setup a whole ventilation system, my setup would consist of the plants, the mylon material surrounding the grow space, lights(obviously), an air ionizer, and some fans for the plants, will this do the job? I also believe the mars hydro lighting system I will be using also has some sort of a vent if that makes a difference.
 
Salutations SpaceGod,

I don't have the necessary skills to setup a whole ventilation system...

As a long-time lurker i must confess i don't have the necessary experience to assist neither but i do find the question potentially interesting nonetheless. M'well, i guess i miss the hobby at times!...

:toke:

...an air ionizer, and some fans...

While reading an article elsewhere i happened to wonder if it's not desirable to still have a carbon filter present in the exhaust line, possibly after the UV sterilizer so it will last longer, i guess. Another aspect which ventilation evokes to my mind is temperature control and more precisely an eventually beneficial separation between roots and folliage (it seems roots prefer fresh soil with oxygenated water), etc...

Also i have a question of my own relatively to that cultivation space: is there a logging (spy) meter monitoring your electrical circuit??

Good day, have fun!! :peace:
 
Salutations SpaceGod,



As a long-time lurker i must confess i don't have the necessary experience to assist neither but i do find the question potentially interesting nonetheless. M'well, i guess i miss the hobby at times!...

:toke:



While reading an article elsewhere i happened to wonder if it's not desirable to still have a carbon filter present in the exhaust line, possibly after the UV sterilizer so it will last longer, i guess. Another aspect which ventilation evokes to my mind is temperature control and more precisely an eventually beneficial separation between roots and folliage (it seems roots prefer fresh soil with oxygenated water), etc...

Also i have a question of my own relatively to that cultivation space: is there a logging (spy) meter monitoring your electrical circuit??

Good day, have fun!! :peace:
That is a very good question, I am not entirely sure if there is a spy meter monitoring the electrical circuit, if there is what do i do about it and or what does it look like?
 
Hi there SpaceGod!

...is there a logging (spy) meter monitoring your electrical circuit??

...if there is what do i do about it and or what does it look like?

The manufacturer's name and product model may be sufficient hint to locate related documentation, while these captures posted below illustrated best the perspective on which i'm about to develop further:

2z3pf1w.jpg


Hydro-Ontario_Data_Log.jpg

For starters it's not just about the amount of energy being consumed, there's a major source of information conveyed by EVENTS TIMING instead of amplitude alone. Worst, IMHO connection of a crystal-controlled timer working like a precision metronome to control lamps ranging in hundreds of Watts (if not KiloWatts!) is a very bad idea considering the logging meter acts like a lossless antenna since it's inside a meter feeding the target circuit directly, e.g. locally. So, it may not look like it at our own biological scale but in a machine universe such signals are synonymous of strong specific voices, even if there's only one change of phase every 12 hours. They just need to listen a while longer - and there's no obligation to analyze collected data right away: once it's out it's too late and hence there's no rush anyway. But then one has got to re-visit the manufacturer's documentation to keep in mind that the meter's whole purpose is to detect anomalies on a power grid even when not directly monitored (stolen electricity, hardware leaks/failures), thanks to having a matrix of meters around it... M'well, that's what i could gather when i read it years ago. Sampling frequency could be like 3 readings every 15 minutes, in 3 different dimensions such as Voltage, Current and Phase. E.G. THAT INCLUDES A 4TH ONE wich is TIME-COHERENT EVENTS. Biefly put that's 4 channels 288 times a day and i wouldn't bet other meters won't exceed that performance. Think of it, 4-channels to detect 2 transitory events using 288 readings. Get the picture? M'well, at least in theory, until reality turns to nightmare.

:help:

As a result asymetrical 12/12 schedules synchronized by crystal resonance is the last thing i'd want to rely on these days if i were to experiment with this wonderful hobby again. The only 2 options i can imagine are either to go 24/0 or even better: balance loads between multiple cultivation spaces in order to lower my power consumption footprint while removing time-coherent information completely using twin fuzzy-time complementary cultivation spaces (powered via a DPDT relay that is controlled by a timer featured with the randomization function), preferably... So, if loads balance on each half and transitions are never predictible down to the minute then i figure the spy-meter won't be able to register any garden activity other than a large amount of electric consumption with practicaly no "voices" at all.

In addition, i also suspect it's possible to rely on real antennas for triangulation from the street... These would simple need to stay put for a few days i guess. In conclusion, the lower a signature the better it is on planet Itnoc (In The Name Of Children).

Good day, have fun!! :peace:
 
Last edited:
Hi there SpaceGod!





The manufacturer's name and product model may be sufficient hint to locate related documentation, while these captures posted below illustrated best the perspective on which i'm about to develop further:
For starters it's not just about the amount of energy being consumed, there's a major source of information conveyed by EVENTS TIMING instead of amplitude alone. Worst, IMHO connection of a crystal-controlled timer working like a precision metronome to control lamps ranging in hundreds of Watts (if not KiloWatts!) is a very bad idea considering the logging meter acts like a lossless antenna since it's inside a meter feeding the target circuit directly, e.g. locally. So, it may not look like it at our own biological scale but in a machine universe such signals are synonymous of strong specific voices, even if there's only one change of phase every 12 hours. They just need to listen a while longer - and there's no obligation to analyze collected data right away: once it's out it's too late and hence there's no rush anyway. But then one has got to re-visit the manufacturer's documentation to keep in mind that the meter's whole purpose is to detect anomalies on a power grid even when not directly monitored (stolen electricity, hardware leaks/failures), thanks to having a matrix of meters around it... M'well, that's what i could gather when i read it years ago. Sampling frequency could be like 3 readings every 15 minutes, in 3 different dimensions such as Voltage, Current and Phase. E.G. THAT INCLUDES A 4TH ONE wich is TIME-COHERENT EVENTS. Biefly put that's 4 channels 288 times a day and i wouldn't bet other meters won't exceed that performance. Think of it, 4-channels to detect 2 transitory events using 288 readings. Get the picture? M'well, at least in theory, until reality turns to nightmare.

:help:

As a result asymetrical 12/12 schedules synchronized by crystal resonance is the last thing i'd want to rely on these days if i were to experiment with this wonderful hobby again. The only 2 options i can imagine are either to go 24/0 or even better: balance loads between multiple cultivation spaces in order to lower my power consumption footprint while removing time-coherent information completely using twin fuzzy-time complementary cultivation spaces (powered via a DPDT relay that is controlled by a timer featured with the randomization function), preferably... So, if loads balance on each half and transitions are never predictible down to the minute then i figure the spy-meter won't be able to register any garden activity other than a large amount of electric consumption with practicaly no "voices" at all.

In addition, i also suspect it's possible to rely on real antennas for triangulation from the street... These would simple need to stay put for a few days i guess. In conclusion, the lower a signature the better it is on planet Itnoc (In The Name Of Children).

Good day, have fun!! :peace:
Very very interesting point, thank you for the graphs by the way, I could deffinitly see now how getting past a meter might be difficult, do you suggest 24 hours, or should i switch it up, so like 12/12 a few days, than 24 hours, than Like 18/6, and what are the actual odds of them looking @ my electricity bill and thinking that i would be growing if i had absolutly no suspicious activity besides the electricity consumption. Will the 300w LED panels i am going to use give off a certain signature that tops all my other appliances consistently running? My bill always bounces around from 150-220$ for electricity, pretty high anyways, will these 2 LED panels really give it away in my electric bill that that is whats going on even if there is a logging meter? Thank you so much! @Egzoset
 
@SpaceGod

Ventilation is super easy to setup man! All you need is four things: Carbon Filter, inline fan, ducting, and I think they are called worms. The worms are used to secure/keep your ducting connected. You can knock a hole in your ceiling and vent the air out there, or (better option because of FLIR) if you have two rooms side by side you can just vent it out into another room.

I'm not sure about the question you asked but I doubt it. If you need help with ventilation let me know. I use a setup that probably cost me 160$ total.

Also I don't know where this guy came from with the spy meter thing but I always run everything in my grow room 24/0. Not only does it keep everything stable, but I suppose the electric company assumes I have an item that requires me to run it 24/7 that also uses a lot of electricity.
 
Salutations SpaceGod,
Salutations Troon,

You can knock a hole in your ceiling and vent the air out there, or (better option because of FLIR) if you have two rooms side by side you can just vent it out into another room.

Good thinking, i find this line of reasoning most appropriate! Maybe it can hardly apply to a small-scale 12/12 complementary Twin-Cabinet scenario but i do like to imagine a pair of indoor cultivation rooms managing LED heat by moving it around within the boundaries of a sealed closed circuit. How about recuperation of the wasted energy to provide hot water to a shower located in a 3rd room nearby, for example?

...this guy... ...with the spy meter thing...

Plewase don't take my word for it, manufacturers make their very own documentation publicly available via the internet!

...I always run everything in my grow room 24/0. ... ...I suppose the electric company assumes I have an item that requires me to run it 24/7 that also uses a lot of electricity.

M'yeah, electric lights: their electical consumption is continuous, with no interruptions, just in case you didn't mind to read and understand the excerpt you quoted, integrally, euh... But i concur with your opinion of them having to guess, plus the idea that this helps with hardware reliability, etc. So, ultimately my point would be this: since there's a visible stable level of electrical consumption registered anyway then lets transfer part of that energy to a 3rd-party electrical device not directly associated with a cultivation space, hot water boiling for domestic purposes, for example. M'well, if it were my building i'd want to figure out some way to retain at least some amount of the energy i paid for which lamps transformed into useful light bands, and also wasted light bands (like IR) and heat. Lots of heat and even LEDs will produce heat, but i'm not ready to bet that's as much heat when changing from cabinet-size to room-size activity, nonetheless... In other words, i'm not too sure it's worth the expense if the space size doesn't match a trade-off zone where benefit from the consumed energy bloc would be optimized. Or if you prefer, lower the electrical consumption so the threshold goes down past a "noise" floor.

Euh... Camouflage. All theoretical, for the pleasure of discussion.

:pop:

...I could deffinitly see now how getting past a meter might be difficult...

Fine, my underlying intention was to raise some awareness that log meters are bound to become "game changers", so to speak.

...do you suggest 24 hours, or should i switch it up, so like 12/12 a few days, than 24 hours, than Like 18/6...

If i were in an ambiguous duality situation where i'd be actually wearing 2 hats chasing myself then i'd point out that it may be tricky to support no switching at all for months in a row, while metronome-like beating as a "barker" is to be avoided at all times, basically. Alternately, from a chaser's perspective, in a balanced 12/12 twin-setup theory there's always that massive continuous energy bloc which caused the whole consumption graph to raise vertically... So, as i pointed out previously, if all there is to find is a constant power consumption level, while i'd be able to justify the search for signs of indoor cultivation space activities (...), then i think i'd try to decide what's a trivial level - of a computer server perhaps, etc. Beyond that creativity kicks in and i begin to fly high trying to envison closed-circuit energy management!...

:cooldance:

M'well, i know how disapointing this may sound but, well... I mean, if the electricity provider is after something directly connected to a logging meter chances are they'll find it IMO. Otherwise their supplier(s) wouldn't be able to promise location of faults even outside of a digital grid, with assistance from the rest of a grid nearby... At least that's how i deceiphered it long ago. That's why i came to what follows next.

...what are the actual odds of them looking @ my electricity bill...

All bets are open. Personally i keep thinking if it's recorded then there's no telling when a situation can change. In any case it's not going to be done by humans, they'll design batch-compilators to analyse the data automagically for them. So the trick would be to figure out what parameters will be chosen, or i suppose the manufacturer's own software already incorporates optimized versions of such function. Go wonder, i only know there's been victims of electrical spying in Ontario, more specifically because of Horizon as i recall.

Consequently, my point here would be to repeat that it may be well advised to eliminate obvious signals which one could as well tagg barkers: so i wouldn't trust crystal-precision timing with no random function, nor wasteful lamp technologies where 80 % of the energy needs to be evacuated for no good purpose...

A simple bilateral power relay can deal with the "voices" by turning them off in a well balanced multi-cell design, LED-based i figure. A dual-room scenario seems fine but i believe even more complex timings like 8/16 are possible using a matrix of multiple cultivation rooms, perhaps also the Gas Lantern Routine (12-5½-1-5½) ultimately. It only depends on how many different schedule cells are available for permutation... Still very hypothetical, that's why i prefer to think just LEDs + heat recycling perhaps. The question being, would i still manage to detect the activity by analyzing low-profile cultivation log records? Hummm...

LEDs light up and turn off instantly, they don't pre-heat and hence their power consumption doesn't vary by much during state transitions. That should make them ideal for cabinet indoor cultivation - but i'd like them better if these could be built with simple/efficient (computer) CPU water-cooling technology used to feed a water-heater or similar, once hot enough... Then i begin to think it may actually require many dual-cabinet sets for this to make sense. My guess is the easier solution is always to avoid heat generation in the 1st place anyway! But then will those same LEDs still beat plain-old HPS tubes in the flowering phase?...

:shrug:

Will the 300w LED panels i am going to use give off a certain signature that tops all my other appliances consistently running?

If the meter only records voltage, intensity and phase at a relatively slow data rate then it has no way to differentiate LED lights from any others. All it sees as long as you don't switch it on or off will be a pedestal which from their perspective may also include other electrical components happening to display similar signatures.

One problem is that a clear message is sent during the steep on/off switching transition: 300 Watts of continuous consumption here! Now, if it's barking @ 12/12 with crystal precision then the contrasting continuous bloc cycles will strongly suggest it's a light all right, while the power amount may even provide some strong hint as to what type of light exactly. So, maybe it's not possible to consume power without a (spy) provider knowing about it but this doesn't imply you're forbiden from swapping items around, to scramble their data just a little bit further, ideally. In the meantime i keep hoping for bio-engineered mushrooms with the appropriate palette of THC/CBD/CBN, etc!!

:weed:

In any case, we humans may get the impression it will all get blurred eventually but i'm still convinced it's safer (and much more rational) to bet on ways to reduce the signature directly, if that's an option. Alternately, considering smoking is a waste of noble molecules (!), i'd argue that simply converting to vaporism would perform a comparable goal for a smoker because in the end less vegetal mass shall need to be grown! Now how about raising cannabic consumption efficiency and lowering the associated cultivation energy bloc, simultaneously?...

:wiz:

For example, imagine dividing a project as 2 x 150 Watts, powered concurently by a DPDT (2-circuits/bilateral) relay @ 12/12 to mute the voice completely above 0 Hz... It turns out my computer's PSU is rated above that and it could as well run a 24/0 server - which do have transition events, by the way. Etc., etc.

:2cents:

Thank you so much!

Please don't mention it, it's just fun to have fun for me and i have confidence the real gurus will add their own experienced perspective eventually. After all i got more questions than anwers, but i found desirable to open windows on a few overlooked matters, hoping these posts help to focus light on an even wider view!

Good day, have fun! :peace:
 
Last edited:
Salutations SpaceGod,
Salutations Troon,



Good thinking, i find this line of reasoning most appropriate! Maybe it can hardly apply to a small-scale 12/12 complementary Twin-Cabinet scenario but i do like to imagine a pair of indoor cultivation rooms managing LED heat by moving it around within the boundaries of a sealed closed circuit. How about recuperation of the wasted energy to provide hot water to a shower located in a 3rd room nearby, for example?



Plewase don't take my word for it, manufacturers make their very own documentation publicly available via the internet!



M'yeah, electric lights: their electical consumption is continuous, with no interruptions, just in case you didn't mind to read and understand the excerpt you quoted, integrally, euh... But i concur with your opinion of them having to guess, plus the idea that this helps with hardware reliability, etc. So, ultimately my point would be this: since there's a visible stable level of electrical consumption registered anyway then lets transfer part of that energy to a 3rd-party electrical device not directly associated with a cultivation space, hot water boiling for domestic purposes, for example. M'well, if it were my building i'd want to figure out some way to retain at least some amount of the energy i paid for which lamps transformed into useful light bands, and also wasted light bands (like IR) and heat. Lots of heat and even LEDs will produce heat, but i'm not ready to bet that's as much heat when changing from cabinet-size to room-size activity, nonetheless... In other words, i'm not too sure it's worth the expense if the space size doesn't match a trade-off zone where benefit from the consumed energy bloc would be optimized. Or if you prefer, lower the electrical consumption so the threshold goes down past a "noise" floor.

Euh... Camouflage. All theoretical, for the pleasure of discussion.

:pop:



Fine, my underlying intention was to raise some awareness that log meters are bound to become "game changers", so to speak.



If i were in an ambiguous duality situation where i'd be actually wearing 2 hats chasing myself then i'd point out that it may be tricky to support no switching at all for months in a row, while metronome-like beating as a "barker" is to be avoided at all times, basically. Alternately, from a chaser's perspective, in a balanced 12/12 twin-setup theory there's always that massive continuous energy bloc which caused the whole consumption graph to raise vertically... So, as i pointed out previously, if all there is to find is a constant power consumption level, while i'd be able to justify the search for signs of indoor cultivation space activities (...), then i think i'd try to decide what's a trivial level - of a computer server perhaps, etc. Beyond that creativity kicks in and i begin to fly high trying to envison closed-circuit energy management!...

:cooldance:

M'well, i know how disapointing this may sound but, well... I mean, if the electricity provider is after something directly connected to a logging meter chances are they'll find it IMO. Otherwise their supplier(s) wouldn't be able to promise location of faults even outside of a digital grid, with assistance from the rest of a grid nearby... At least that's how i deceiphered it long ago. That's why i came to what follows next.



All bets are open. Personally i keep thinking if it's recorded then there's no telling when a situation can change. In any case it's not going to be done by humans, they'll design batch-compilators to analyse the data automagically for them. So the trick would be to figure out what parameters will be chosen, or i suppose the manufacturer's own software already incorporates optimized versions of such function. Go wonder, i only know there's been victims of electrical spying in Ontario, more specifically because of Horizon as i recall.

Consequently, my point here would be to repeat that it may be well advised to eliminate obvious signals which one could as well tagg barkers: so i wouldn't trust crystal-precision timing with no random function, nor wasteful lamp technologies where 80 % of the energy needs to be evacuated for no good purpose...

A simple bilateral power relay can deal with the "voices" by turning them off in a well balanced multi-cell design, LED-based i figure. A dual-room scenario seems fine but i believe even more complex timings like 8/16 are possible using a matrix of multiple cultivation rooms, perhaps also the Gas Lantern Routine (12-5½-1-5½) ultimately. It only depends on how many different schedule cells are available for permutation... Still very hypothetical, that's why i prefer to think just LEDs + heat recycling perhaps. The question being, would i still manage to detect the activity by analyzing low-profile cultivation log records? Hummm...

LEDs light up and turn off instantly, they don't pre-heat and hence their power consumption doesn't vary by much during state transitions. That should make them ideal for cabinet indoor cultivation - but i'd like them better if these could be built with simple/efficient (computer) CPU water-cooling technology used to feed a water-heater or similar, once hot enough... Then i begin to think it may actually require many dual-cabinet sets for this to make sense. My guess is the easier solution is always to avoid heat generation in the 1st place anyway! But then will those same LEDs still beat plain-old HPS tubes in the flowering phase?...

:shrug:



If the meter only records voltage, intensity and phase at a relatively slow data rate then it has no way to differentiate LED lights from any others. All it sees as long as you don't switch it on or off will be a pedestal which from their perspective may also include other electrical components happening to display similar signatures.

One problem is that a clear message is sent during the steep on/off switching transition: 300 Watts of continuous consumption here! Now, if it's barking @ 12/12 with crystal precision then the contrasting continuous bloc cycles will strongly suggest it's a light all right, while the power amount may even provide some strong hint as to what type of light exactly. So, maybe it's not possible to consume power without a (spy) provider knowing about it but this doesn't imply you're forbiden from swapping items around, to scramble their data just a little bit further, ideally. In the meantime i keep hoping for bio-engineered mushrooms with the appropriate palette of THC/CBD/CBN, etc!!

:weed:

In any case, we humans may get the impression it will all get blurred eventually but i'm still convinced it's safer (and much more rational) to bet on ways to reduce the signature directly, if that's an option. Alternately, considering smoking is a waste of noble molecules (!), i'd argue that simply converting to vaporism would perform a comparable goal for a smoker because in the end less vegetal mass shall need to be grown! Now how about raising cannabic consumption efficiency and lowering the associated cultivation energy bloc, simultaneously?...

:wiz:

For example, imagine dividing a project as 2 x 150 Watts, powered concurently by a DPDT (2-circuits/bilateral) relay @ 12/12 to mute the voice completely above 0 Hz... It turns out my computer's PSU is rated above that and it could as well run a 24/0 server - which do have transition events, by the way. Etc., etc.

:2cents:



Please don't mention it, it's just fun to have fun for me and i have confidence the real gurus will add their own experienced perspective eventually. After all i got more questions than anwers, but i found desirable to open windows on a few overlooked matters, hoping these posts help to focus light on an even wider view!

Good day, have fun! :peace:

Uhhhh... I read everything you wrote and probably only understood half of it. :p Don't take that as insult by the way, it's a compliment lol
 
I have a lot of open indoor space but close neighbors.
As far as ventilation goes has anyone tryed using an air ionizer that is just as effective for keeping the smell down, and the plants in a healthy environment? I don't have the necessary skills to setup a whole ventilation system, my setup would consist of the plants, the mylon material surrounding the grow space, lights(obviously), an air ionizer, and some fans for the plants, will this do the job? I also believe the mars hydro lighting system I will be using also has some sort of a vent if that makes a difference.

Good morning SpaceGod!

I don't think an air ionizer itself is going to be enough to kill the smell of your plants, especially with how you're describing the setup. Carbon scrubbers are arguably the most effective tool you'll have to remove smell from your grow space and I wouldn't cut corners just because you don't think you have the skills (and you do, it's so easy!) I'd rather see you spend a few hours reading per night on figuring out how to control your ventilation than I would see you take half-ass measures and find yourself with a stinking, cannabis smelling problem.

Marijuana smells and it has a very different smell when it's growing. Dont' let anyone tell you otherwise.

You need an extraction fan and you need a scrubber. Get a 25 foot length of duct from Home Depot or online and you're in business. Do it the right way, do it the safe way. Don't get sidetracked :biggrin: :d5:
 
Salutations Troon,

Uhhhh... I read everything... ... ...a compliment...

Yeah, sometimes it seems i can't resist the drive to explore multiple avenues. Who knows, my guess is, should i dare to read-read myself again perhaps i'd need to conclude: a) memory is a fragile function; b) my last batch is actually stronger than i initially suspected... c) it's my pipe reconfiguration which pays dividends at last!! Or d), e), f), etc...

:biggrin:

Good day, have fun!! :peace:
 
Back
Top