Time for Truth: Do manufactured Nutrients Kill Soil Life

[pop22]

We've all heard this a million times, "chemical" nutrients ( a false label ) will kill the life in soil. So that begs the question: Why are Mycos, and other fungi and bacteria, ADDED to hydro grows! It can't grow in them nasty nutrients ( sarcasm ), so why put them in there if they are just going to die quickly??

I smell bullshit..... and have for a long time. Now there may be some truth in it, people putting stupid amounts of nutrients in their soil or hydro, anything over say 800 ppms, are pretty much borderline poisoning there plants, not to say the life in soil. YOU CAN'T force feed plant. its not even possible so all those reccommendations to run 1200-1500 ppms are just to get you to waste nutes and have to buy more.............

Back on topic.. I've been poking at this topic for sometime now and there is almost no science to support it. I've found only one study that claimed it was detrimental. But it was just one with no peer reviews. So I'm still calling bullshit.

So if anyone has info to support or disprove this myth, I'd like to see it posted here. I might try some non scientific tests of my own. Maybe something like Jacks classic used to water a pot of organic soil. I incorporate worms into my pots these days so lets see if it kills them too. I'll keep the ppms to around 600-700, the same as I use for my coco grows. Would love to see others give this. a try!

 

[KonopCh]

I smell bullsh*t like you. But don't have any evidence...

I guess you can keep them alive if you top fed them like once per week or once per two weeks.
If you mix with potting medium at start... they'll die before harvest if you not top dress them.

I wonder if you even can meassure and make some evidence? They're living organisms, you count them? I guess not.

I have the other myth or question... you must supply carbs to them to keep them alive? In soiless media - coco or hydro let's say...

 

[pop22]

BUT............ no one...... when they tell you this explains why other than "its those chems you put in there" WHAT chems? people spout shit they don't even understand, it just sounds good so they believe it. I ask again and ask specifically of everyone who believes this, what CHEMS? Does anyone even think about how grow and bloom nutes are made? I'm not talking about all the crap people think they need on top of their nutrients, just grow and bloom. It is known that many of the additives ( Bloom boosters etc ) contain illegal hormones etc. No one does anything about it so they continue to sell them.... hell yes, this crap is likely not beneficial to microlife. But nutrients, mineral salts and elements, are just that and are already in your soil.

Does anyone realize what "salts" are? They are minerals broken down into anions and cations. THESE are the salts we talk about, and have no relation to table salt by the way.. These salts are created by a process called chelation. And guess what? Microbes break down minerals by........ chelation! And the "nasty chem" that's used most often to chelate the minerals is EDTA, a food grade ORGANIC enzyme. And unless your talking about Miracle Grow, which has fillers and coloring dye in it, there are NO chemicals outside of those I described.

And salt build up in a medium is a sign of over feeding and IMO, something we all need to address. Yes too much of anything in your soil will be detrimental. I've just begun feeding as it once was recommended, water once a week with nutrients ( in soil ), plain water the other waterings. Soil retains a lot of nutrients because of it high ( CeC? ), or attraction of anions and cations, it retains them better than any other medium.

Wish I had a microscope... I'd love to be able to see for myself what is or isn't happening!

I smell bullsh*t like you. But don't have any evidence...

I guess you can keep them alive if you top fed them like once per week or once per two weeks.
If you mix with potting medium at start... they'll die before harvest if you not top dress them.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

I think it has some merit,just due to the fact some many years ago it was derived differently. Nowadays , you have multiple way of doing the so to say,chem feeds.its a higher salt content as we know. its the morphing of the higher salts that effect the taste and oils that I have experienced over my years. ppl still call it chem feeds as do I.but its not fully accurate as you pointed out these days. but still harms some microbes,and others will thrive. the higher life content that thrives takes in more as we know life holds the balance and hold several times their own weight in food(s). but the higher diversity is whats needed to deliver the entire bud characteristic that we all love,myself included. now you talk about cannabis,but veggies are something to consider too. an only water system of living soil will do just fine. but ideally in a perfect world you need to add a few smaller micro foods to round out the true intake of the fruits,veggies and so on. flowers arent quite that,so imho thats where some ppl loose the track on chleation feeds over all natural imo.

 

[pop22]

You know me my friend, I want science that will or won't answer this question.

I think it has some merit,just due to the fact some many years ago it was derived differently. Nowadays , you have multiple way of doing the so to say,chem feeds.its a higher salt content as we know. its the morphing of the higher salts that effect the taste and oils that I have experienced over my years. ppl still call it chem feeds as do I.but its not fully accurate as you pointed out these days. but still harms some microbes,and others will thrive. the higher life content that thrives takes in more as we know life holds the balance and hold several times their own weight in food(s). but the higher diversity is whats needed to deliver the entire bud characteristic that we all love,myself included. now you talk about cannabis,but veggies are something to consider too. an only water system of living soil will do just fine. but ideally in a perfect world you need to add a few smaller micro foods to round out the true intake of the fruits,veggies and so on. flowers arent quite that,so imho thats where some ppl loose the track on chleation feeds over all natural imo.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

yeah I know broseph,you dig them numbers lol

 

[johnp540]

Found a good article that has a couple references in it. There's also some good points argued in the comments section after the article. Check it out.
http://www.gardenmyths.com/does-fertilizer-kill-soil-bacteria/

Me personally, I agree with you pops, as I do this article. But I also love the idea of organics. I'm planning on doing both side by side a few times to see what I like the most. At the end of the day, as long as we're responsible, I think we should employ what works best for us. Just try and stay away from Monsanto. Enjoy the read.

Edit: found another
http://organiclifestyles.tamu.edu/soil/microbeindex.html

 

[pop22]

BINGO! Haven't been on that site in a while, good find! Science wins again
1

Found a good article that has a couple references in it. There's also some good points argued in the comments section after the article. Check it out.
http://www.gardenmyths.com/does-fertilizer-kill-soil-bacteria/

Me personally, I agree with you pops, as I do this article. But I also love the idea of organics. I'm planning on doing both side by side a few times to see what I like the most. At the end of the day, as long as we're responsible, I think we should employ what works best for us. Just try and stay away from Monsanto. Enjoy the read.

Edit: found another
http://organiclifestyles.tamu.edu/soil/microbeindex.html

 

[pop22]

I grow mostly organic by choice, and unlike manufactured nutrients, its hard to over do it. Where the problem lies is in people believing more is good and too much is better........ and the canna nute companies are ALL guilty of encouraging such behavior. The ridiculously high nutrient levels I see some people running hydro use, makes me cringe. Besides the fact they are wasting nutrients, the are increasing pollution levels. most could cut their nutes by 40% and likely have a better grow! Same for those using it in soil. We need to teach responsible use of nutrients as when used properly, these issues can be negated.

Found a good article that has a couple references in it. There's also some good points argued in the comments section after the article. Check it out.
http://www.gardenmyths.com/does-fertilizer-kill-soil-bacteria/

Me personally, I agree with you pops, as I do this article. But I also love the idea of organics. I'm planning on doing both side by side a few times to see what I like the most. At the end of the day, as long as we're responsible, I think we should employ what works best for us. Just try and stay away from Monsanto. Enjoy the read.

Edit: found another
http://organiclifestyles.tamu.edu/soil/microbeindex.html

 

[johnp540]

I grow mostly organic by choice, and unlike manufactured nutrients, its hard to over do it. Where the problem lies is in people believing more is good and too much is better........ and the canna nute companies are ALL guilty of encouraging such behavior. The ridiculously high nutrient levels I see some people running hydro use, makes me cringe. Besides the fact they are wasting nutrients, the are increasing pollution levels. most could cut their nutes by 40% and likely have a better grow! Same for those using it in soil. We need to teach responsible use of nutrients as when used properly, these issues can be negated.

Hell ya. I agree 110%. You ever heard of Mandala seeds? They boast about organics only, and lower ppms or ec. Some of these strains now days have become used to this kind of feeding. Mandala has a pretty good standard I think. You should check them out. Even if you don't wish to grow their gear, what they preach is similar to your ideas. I'm itching to give them a grow just been tied up trying to get other seeds done. Hopefully by this summer I can try them out. Looks like a lot of their stuff is out of stock now, according to attitude. Hopefully that changes.