Mephisto Genetics The Telos has landed!

......is sorta beating around the bush, obfuscating and pure nonsense ......talking about efficiency when the the subject is heat vis-a-vis tent temperature, but I see the marketing angle. Every W is heat generated, nothing is "lost" to "heat", no "reasonable" amount of heat is produced......A Telos generates 245 W of heat, in one form or another, just like a 600 W HPS bulb produces 600 W of heat(There's a ballast too, but lets not nitpick), in one form or another.......please refer to
9f73dbd37a0cac34406ee89057fa1b36a1e6a18e
in case any doubts lingers....lol

I think I understand what you are saying, you mean the the law of conservation of energy. Heat is a measure of the transfer of energy between thermal systems by conduction, convection and radiation. Work is the transfer of energy by something other than heat, in this case useful light between 400-700nm which is transferred to your plant as electro-chemical energy. If the Telos transferred 0% of the energy in as work and 100% as heat then it wouldn't be very useful! Have a look at the first law of thermodynamics if you want to learn more.

How will it be easier to manage the temperature.....sure, I think, I know what you mean, LED is more PAR efficient, so less wattage is required for the same PAR, but that is not what you write.....Quote: The Telos line will be much easier to manage the tent temperature in hotter months compared to HPS or CMH .......unquote.......conversely, it will be easier to manage the tent temperature in colder months with HPS or CMH......n'est-ce pas?


When talking about the Telos I thought it was important to mention that around 50% of the heat transferred per watt will be from the heatsink to the ambient and atleast 10%+ as IR in the beamangle. I said this because HPS an CMH lamps produce a much larger amount IR and little heat by convection or conduction by comparison.

In both the hotter and colder months leaf temps can be hard to mange under HPS because of the amount of IR in the beamangle directly heating the leaves whereas the heat from an LED system is mainly transferred through the heatsink into the ambient. It's much easier to increase or decrease the ambient temperature of your room to control leaf temperature than it is to shade your plants from a high intensity of IR. That said, I'm not knocking the 315w CMH lights for home growers, they will be much easier to manage than a 600w HPS and they seem to do a pretty similar job growth wise.

Hope that clears things up for you!
 
I think I understand what you are saying, you mean the the law of conservation of energy. Heat is a measure of the transfer of energy between thermal systems by conduction, convection and radiation. Work is the transfer of energy by something other than heat, in this case useful light between 400-700nm which is transferred to your plant as electro-chemical energy. If the Telos transferred 0% of the energy in as work and 100% as heat then it wouldn't be very useful! Have a look at the first law of thermodynamics if you want to learn more.




When talking about the Telos I thought it was important to mention that around 50% of the heat transferred per watt will be from the heatsink to the ambient and atleast 10%+ as IR in the beamangle. I said this because HPS an CMH lamps produce a much larger amount IR and little heat by convection or conduction by comparison.

In both the hotter and colder months leaf temps can be hard to mange under HPS because of the amount of IR in the beamangle directly heating the leaves whereas the heat from an LED system is mainly transferred through the heatsink into the ambient. It's much easier to increase or decrease the ambient temperature of your room to control leaf temperature than it is to shade your plants from a high intensity of IR. That said, I'm not knocking the 315w CMH lights for home growers, they will be much easier to manage than a 600w HPS and they seem to do a pretty similar job growth wise.

Hope that clears things up for you!

Thanks for the info. Is there any way to generalize how much of an increase the Telos will cause inside a small tent, inside a closet? I know there are many factors but it is only logical to assume all things being equal, the light will increase the temp by X when turned on as opposed to being off. My space outside the tent runs about 23, when no light is on in the tent, when on it is about 26 (COB, 4 Citizen CLU048 -1212) and is running 29-30 inside the tent. Under those circumstances how much can I expect the temps to rise with the Telos? Reason I ask is I bought a Kind LED K3 and it increased my temps inside to 37 plus. I got stuck with that light and am trying to no repeat that fiasco. Your light sounds impressive but I need to find out if it will work for my situation. Thanks man!
 
Thanks for the info. Is there any way to generalize how much of an increase the Telos will cause inside a small tent, inside a closet? I know there are many factors but it is only logical to assume all things being equal, the light will increase the temp by X when turned on as opposed to being off. My space outside the tent runs about 23, when no light is on in the tent, when on it is about 26 (COB, 4 Citizen CLU048 -1212) and is running 29-30 inside the tent. Under those circumstances how much can I expect the temps to rise with the Telos? Reason I ask is I bought a Kind LED K3 and it increased my temps inside to 37 plus. I got stuck with that light and am trying to no repeat that fiasco. Your light sounds impressive but I need to find out if it will work for my situation. Thanks man!

Hey man, it's not a super accurate test, but the telos runs really cool to the touch,
We have cmh ballasts that feel far far too hot to the touch and the telos is a magnitude or two less.

Again, not super accurate as we're currently running with tents open but inside the telos tent was the same as ambient room temp.

Hope that helps even a little,

Cheers Mitch
 
I think I understand what you are saying, you mean the the law of conservation of energy. Heat is a measure of the transfer of energy between thermal systems by conduction, convection and radiation. Work is the transfer of energy by something other than heat, in this case useful light between 400-700nm which is transferred to your plant as electro-chemical energy. If the Telos transferred 0% of the energy in as work and 100% as heat then it wouldn't be very useful! Have a look at the first law of thermodynamics if you want to learn more.

You're correct, that is efficiency, or useful as you say, PAR efficiency....electro chemical energy, again absolutely correct..... The total sum of the 245 W input remain..... as heat. .

But this is about using a light as a heater, before getting a Telos, simply hang an 245 W electrical heater in the tent rigged up with everything running and measure what happens along with the variances in ambient temperatures.....
 
Hey man, it's not a super accurate test, but the telos runs really cool to the touch,
We have cmh ballasts that feel far far too hot to the touch and the telos is a magnitude or two less.

Again, not super accurate as we're currently running with tents open but inside the telos tent was the same as ambient room temp.

Hope that helps even a little,

Cheers Mitch
Thanks Mitch, yeah I was just looking for some comparison to gauge the temp since I've had to fight it in the past. The Telos sounds and looks cool so I'm leaning towards picking one up. I wish I could change my environment but I can't. Itching to get my next grow started, Grape Crinkle and two other Mephisto strains, haven't made up my mind which two yet!
 
You're correct, that is efficiency, or useful as you say, PAR efficiency....electro chemical energy, again absolutely correct..... The total sum of the 245 W input remain..... as heat. .
Lol @Corgy it might be best if we might just agree to disagree on that one for now...

Thanks for the info. Is there any way to generalize how much of an increase the Telos will cause inside a small tent, inside a closet? I know there are many factors but it is only logical to assume all things being equal, the light will increase the temp by X when turned on as opposed to being off. My space outside the tent runs about 23, when no light is on in the tent, when on it is about 26 (COB, 4 Citizen CLU048 -1212) and is running 29-30 inside the tent. Under those circumstances how much can I expect the temps to rise with the Telos? Reason I ask is I bought a Kind LED K3 and it increased my temps inside to 37 plus. I got stuck with that light and am trying to no repeat that fiasco. Your light sounds impressive but I need to find out if it will work for my situation. Thanks man!

Sorry @Arsenal, I think I went quite bit off point with your original question. Can you tell me the total power draw on the 4x COB's? The Kind K3 is around 320w actual draw and from my experience with the Modular series (a very similar series we use to sell a while back) the Telos-0008 will be quite a bit more efficient and @245w power draw compared to 320w it will keep the ambient temps alot cooler.
 
Lol @Corgy it might be best if we might just agree to disagree on that one for now...

Well, I'm firmly stuck in the Einstein camp, can't agree to disagree on that one..... Sorry.. Lol.....

Magic light that Telos, makes energy disappear..... And "runs colder" than other light emitters in the known universe.....hmmmm!
 
Lol @Corgy it might be best if we might just agree to disagree on that one for now...



Sorry @Arsenal, I think I went quite bit off point with your original question. Can you tell me the total power draw on the 4x COB's? The Kind K3 is around 320w actual draw and from my experience with the Modular series (a very similar series we use to sell a while back) the Telos-0008 will be quite a bit more efficient and @245w power draw compared to 320w it will keep the ambient temps alot cooler.
Thanks @GrowNorthern - the COB are driven by a Meanwell 185 w 1400ma and are dimable although I haven't used the dimmer b/c I've heard it not good for autos - I'm new and learning so I try to take advice from those who have been doing this a while with success. As always, I appreciate your thiughts, guidance and support.
 
Hi @Arsenal, I had a quick look at the datasheet and they are pretty efficient; around 145lm per watt. The XPG3 we use emit around a 170lm per watt in our thermal configuration and 660nm is very efficient, it transfers around half of the input power into radiant energy. The Telos-0008 would output over 10% more light per watt (@245w that would be about a 40-50% increase to your original setup) again the optics will produce a much more even distribution than 4 individual COB's.

Regarding the temperature issue though, it would still raise the temperature in there by a few degrees. At 29-30C your already close to your upper limit unless you can improve the air flow through the tent. We do have the Telos-0006 coming out later this year, this also uses a 185w Meanwell driver. It could be a good way of improving the light output and distribution without increasing the temperature and if that extra light output is utilized by the plants it would also lower the ambient temperature in there compared to your current setup.

Hope that helps and have a good weekend!
 
Hi @Arsenal, I had a quick look at the datasheet and they are pretty efficient; around 145lm per watt. The XPG3 we use emit around a 170lm per watt in our thermal configuration and 660nm is very efficient, it transfers around half of the input power into radiant energy. The Telos-0008 would output over 10% more light per watt (@245w that would be about a 40-50% increase to your original setup) again the optics will produce a much more even distribution than 4 individual COB's.

Regarding the temperature issue though, it would still raise the temperature in there by a few degrees. At 29-30C your already close to your upper limit unless you can improve the air flow through the tent. We do have the Telos-0006 coming out later this year, this also uses a 185w Meanwell driver. It could be a good way of improving the light output and distribution without increasing the temperature and if that extra light output is utilized by the plants it would also lower the ambient temperature in there compared to your current setup.

Hope that helps and have a good weekend!
@GrowNorthern excellent! I guess I will have to wait for the 0006 to be released. I appreciate your response to my issue because it is unique in that the size is small and no real way to exhaust to an external space in order to turn the air over. Any idea of a price point for the 0006? Thanks again for your time, very much appreciated.
 
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