Mephisto Genetics The Telos has landed!
- Thread starter gbd
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Jealous of y'all! If you guys ever make it out to the boston area, I'll be glad to show you Tom Bradys Grow Garden
I'll be in Boston next weekend for the Cannacon.
Not dimmable, I'll see if I can't dig out my killawatt meter tomorrow, but I'm fairly certain it's 270 watts actual.
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@mephisto @gbd thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedules to run the new lights, looking forward to seeing what you can do with them!
@Corgy the 90cmx90cm was just an example of the coverage at 60cm from canopy height. The coverage is quite different to typical led grow lights, it has a non-gaussian distribution which means the centre isn't the most intense spot like you would expect. If you have the head room to raise the light it will cover a bigger area and it will cover the corners of a tent as good as it covers the center at the right height. In your 5x5 I would reccomend either 2x Telos-0008 (490w) or 2x the telos-0010 (610w) 4x the telos-0008 would be overkill in that area.
@gbd has the sample Telos-0008 (240w), Mitch @mephisto has the sample Telos-0010 which is a 300w version but I was orignally talking to both of them about the lights like they were in the same room so I can see why @gbd landed on 270w. The Telos-0010 won't launch untill later this year along with the Telos-0006 (180w approx) which @HolyTHC is going to be testing for us. The Telos-0008 (245-250w actual) will be luanching towards the end of July.
The initial production versions are non dimmable, however the drivers can be easily interchanged so there will dimming options in the future. We are trying to launch with as few options as possible as it's already a pretty big project for us to manage with just one light launching.
@pop22 we are building a new website at the moment and that will have all of the full electrical, photometric and dimensional specs of all 3 lights in the Telos line. Here is a summary of what we have talked about so far in the GN new modules thread for the Telos-0008.
Any other questions anyone has just tag me in.
@Corgy the 90cmx90cm was just an example of the coverage at 60cm from canopy height. The coverage is quite different to typical led grow lights, it has a non-gaussian distribution which means the centre isn't the most intense spot like you would expect. If you have the head room to raise the light it will cover a bigger area and it will cover the corners of a tent as good as it covers the center at the right height. In your 5x5 I would reccomend either 2x Telos-0008 (490w) or 2x the telos-0010 (610w) 4x the telos-0008 would be overkill in that area.
There has been a little confushion on this, my fault, the sample drivers differ from the production versions. The Telos-0008 was originally described as a 250w light. It starts up at 250w but once at steady state temperature it will be around 245w (actual draw). Confusingly the samples will start at 255w and then drop to 240w at steady sate because the sample drivers have in built potentiometers which dim the current output as the temperature rises.
@gbd has the sample Telos-0008 (240w), Mitch @mephisto has the sample Telos-0010 which is a 300w version but I was orignally talking to both of them about the lights like they were in the same room so I can see why @gbd landed on 270w. The Telos-0010 won't launch untill later this year along with the Telos-0006 (180w approx) which @HolyTHC is going to be testing for us. The Telos-0008 (245-250w actual) will be luanching towards the end of July.
The initial production versions are non dimmable, however the drivers can be easily interchanged so there will dimming options in the future. We are trying to launch with as few options as possible as it's already a pretty big project for us to manage with just one light launching.
@pop22 we are building a new website at the moment and that will have all of the full electrical, photometric and dimensional specs of all 3 lights in the Telos line. Here is a summary of what we have talked about so far in the GN new modules thread for the Telos-0008.
- 245-250w led grow light system which will include the driver & lamp (fully assembled) and a 3m power cable and adjustable hanging cables
- The spectrum we will launch with for inddor use is the version being tested which a mixture of 4000k, 3000k and 660nm LED's
- The LED's being used are the CREE XPG3 for the 3000k and 4000k and the XPE(he) top bin CO1 Photo red LED's
- The LED boards are in a proprietary low voltage board design that has a high current accuracy and enables the use of 8w metal ceramic dielectric layer; which lowers the junction point of the LED's considerably compared to older 3w technology
- The optics produce a very homogenous, non-gaussian 90 degree optical distribution and have a transmission efficiency around 93%
- The system has passed IP66 Ingress protection (for water and dust) and is suitable for use indoor, outdoors and in greenhouses.
- It is a fanless, solid state thermal design. The heatsink's typical rise above ambient is 40C.
- The Telos line uses a modular, waterproof, twist lock connector family which makes installation of several systems quick, and safe.
- The system only uses mechanical pressure based seals, no potting or glue so if an overseas customer needed a replacement driver or module or wanted to upgrade we could send over the part rather than needing to ship the unit back to the UK
- The metal work is finished for bimetallic corrosion protection and all the cables and polymer elements have UL flammability compliance and UV protection for the greenhouse growers.
- The systems will come with a non dimmable meanwell HLG driver but has mounting holes for both the HLG and ELG series of meanwell drivers for future dimming options.
- Base price (ex tax/VAT or shipping) is €400/ $420.00/ £340.00 for a single unit.
Any other questions anyone has just tag me in.
@GrowNorthern sounds like a stellar product! Could you speak to the temps that would be obtained while using this light in a 2'x2.5'x5' tent? I'm new to this and my light journey has cost me excess quid any help would be appreciated!
The amount of heat is the wattage, i.e. 245 w, from there it's a matter of any other wattage for fans, pumps, etc, ambient temperatures and air exchanges that decides your tent temperature.
@GrowNorthern, thanks for detailed explanations and replies.
Raising/lowering the light to change the "footprint" will also change PPFD if I'm not mistaken, so what gives...... I don't have the head height for such maneuvers anyways at flowering time, so the Telos 6 and 10 sounds like much better options down the road, or like I floated above, complement with COB''s.
I'm presently using 385 w (actual measured} for light in a 1,2x1,2m, 1 x HS1 and 2 x Area 51 RW-150, and very pleased with yields and grow quality from this setup, 1,5 meaningless GPW or more just to give a ballpark rough idea with 3 runs done, so 2 x 245 Telos Watts is not quite on.... Unless the PAR efficiency is significantly higher, some 25 % in this case for?
Will the "footprint" of the 6 and 10 be square too, or rectangular (pleeeease, pretty please...)?
You mention at the "right height" for increased "footprint", ermmm, what is the right height, short of being armed with the Apogee MQ-501 I've been hovering over for awhile?
Finally, for accurate angling which requires 4 corner hanging points,, would it be advisable to rejig the end frames, maybe insert hooks, a bent alu plate/strip or some such, under the bolts closest to the corners, or drill holes, 3-4 mm would do it in a pinch, as a last resort without compromising anything?
@GrowNorthern, thanks for detailed explanations and replies.
Raising/lowering the light to change the "footprint" will also change PPFD if I'm not mistaken, so what gives...... I don't have the head height for such maneuvers anyways at flowering time, so the Telos 6 and 10 sounds like much better options down the road, or like I floated above, complement with COB''s.
I'm presently using 385 w (actual measured} for light in a 1,2x1,2m, 1 x HS1 and 2 x Area 51 RW-150, and very pleased with yields and grow quality from this setup, 1,5 meaningless GPW or more just to give a ballpark rough idea with 3 runs done, so 2 x 245 Telos Watts is not quite on.... Unless the PAR efficiency is significantly higher, some 25 % in this case for?
Will the "footprint" of the 6 and 10 be square too, or rectangular (pleeeease, pretty please...)?
You mention at the "right height" for increased "footprint", ermmm, what is the right height, short of being armed with the Apogee MQ-501 I've been hovering over for awhile?
Finally, for accurate angling which requires 4 corner hanging points,, would it be advisable to rejig the end frames, maybe insert hooks, a bent alu plate/strip or some such, under the bolts closest to the corners, or drill holes, 3-4 mm would do it in a pinch, as a last resort without compromising anything?
Hi @Arsenal, as @Corgy mentioned your ambient temperature will be determined by your air movement through the tent/intake outtake, ambient room temperature and total dissipated power. You can assume that at least 60% of the total wattage of the fixture will be lost as heat; around 50% will be dissipated from the heatsink but also 10%+ as IR in the beamangle. The Telos line will be much easier to manage the tent temperature in hotter months compared to HPS or CMH but it still produces a reasonable amount of heat per watt. I would recommend looking at PWM controller for your intake/outtake fans that has a thermal sensor to measure the leaf or ambient air temperature. There are some designed specifically for this purpose on the market but you can also get something very similar that does the same job from PC building websites.
Hi @Corgy, compared to the HS1 the deep/photo red LED's are around 18% more efficient, the white LED's are around 30% more efficient, and the overall optical system optical is around 8% more efficient. I don't know how the Telos stacks up against current lights but it does also depend on how many light hours you run per day in flowering with autos/ the daily light integral. If it was photoperiods flowering in 12/12 in a 5x5; I would recommend 4x Telos-0006. With autoflowers this could be overkill i guess depending on the strain and number of light hours but if you went for this setup you could always decrease the number of light hours per day if the resulting deficiencies got on on top of you. An AC on/off timer can be as good as a light dimmer with autoflowers. Again if your head room is limited, 4x Telos-0006 would be the best way to get the full coverage though 2x Telos-0008 with additional quantum boards or COB's could be a good call also.
The Telos-0006 will be the most square and the Telos-0010 the most elliptical/ rectangular but even so the footprint will be a very similar square shape between all 3 systems.
When we get this new version retested we will have diagram showing the coverage and typical PPFD at various heights which should clarify that. As the relative uniformity is 0.6 or higher than doing a grid map PPFD with a with a quantum meter isn't necessary as all the points in the coverage will be very similar. A relative uniformity of 1 would mean that very point of the coverage would have a identical PPFD value.
With a mainly monochromatic 660nm spectrum like the HS1, angling the lights/ interlighting is the best method as you want to cover as much surface area as possible as very little light will penetrate through to the lower canopies. With 660nm light, the more surface area covered the higher the quantum yield. As the Telos emits much more photons between 500-600nm than at 660nm it is better to target the largest volume which in most cases would be straight down at the canopy. A much higher percentage of will reach the lower canopies with this spectrum so targeting the largest volume of biomass will achieve the highest quantum yield.
If you still wanted to angle the light though you can use any of the gaps between the fins and the rails to attach additional hanging cables.
@GrowNorthern thanks for the info, much appreciated!
Thanks for the detailed reply, guess I'll have to get that MQ-501 before any Telos....lol
However this "You can assume that at least 60% of the total wattage of the fixture will be lost as heat; around 50% will be dissipated from the heatsink but also 10%+ as IR in the beamangle. The Telos line will be much easier to manage the tent temperature in hotter months compared to HPS or CMH but it still produces a reasonable amount of heat per watt" ......is sorta beating around the bush, obfuscating and pure nonsense ......talking about efficiency when the the subject is heat vis-a-vis tent temperature, but I see the marketing angle. Every W is heat generated, nothing is "lost" to "heat", no "reasonable" amount of heat is produced......A Telos generates 245 W of heat, in one form or another, just like a 600 W HPS bulb produces 600 W of heat(There's a ballast too, but lets not nitpick), in one form or another.......please refer to
in case any doubts lingers....lol
How will it be easier to manage the temperature.....sure, I think, I know what you mean, LED is more PAR efficient, so less wattage is required for the same PAR, but that is not what you write.....Quote: The Telos line will be much easier to manage the tent temperature in hotter months compared to HPS or CMH .......unquote.......conversely, it will be easier to manage the tent temperature in colder months with HPS or CMH......n'est-ce pas?
However this "You can assume that at least 60% of the total wattage of the fixture will be lost as heat; around 50% will be dissipated from the heatsink but also 10%+ as IR in the beamangle. The Telos line will be much easier to manage the tent temperature in hotter months compared to HPS or CMH but it still produces a reasonable amount of heat per watt" ......is sorta beating around the bush, obfuscating and pure nonsense ......talking about efficiency when the the subject is heat vis-a-vis tent temperature, but I see the marketing angle. Every W is heat generated, nothing is "lost" to "heat", no "reasonable" amount of heat is produced......A Telos generates 245 W of heat, in one form or another, just like a 600 W HPS bulb produces 600 W of heat(There's a ballast too, but lets not nitpick), in one form or another.......please refer to
How will it be easier to manage the temperature.....sure, I think, I know what you mean, LED is more PAR efficient, so less wattage is required for the same PAR, but that is not what you write.....Quote: The Telos line will be much easier to manage the tent temperature in hotter months compared to HPS or CMH .......unquote.......conversely, it will be easier to manage the tent temperature in colder months with HPS or CMH......n'est-ce pas?
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