Squid's future breeding project plans

How much variation do the S3's show?

Then you take a plant and you try to self it, every generation that you self a plant, it becomes 50% more homozygous. Then you go to 75%, 87.5%, 93.75% etc.

So 12.5%, or yes 13% like cres rounded up to. Just figured I'd pull that info back out to explain where the 12.5 comes from.
S1-50% homozygous so 50% variation
S2-75% homozygous so 25% variation
S3-87.5% homozygous so 12.5% variation.

@cres. Cool, thanks. It kinda seems to easy, but I guess you still need to be a spot on grower, have a great eye(or two) for selection of females(and males for the first 1-2etc crosses), know to to stress test properly, and know how to sts or cs breed. Ok, now it doesn't sounds so simple.
 
Then you take a plant and you try to self it, every generation that you self a plant, it becomes 50% more homozygous. Then you go to 75%, 87.5%, 93.75% etc.

So 12.5%, or yes 13% like cres rounded up to. Just figured I'd pull that info back out to explain where the 12.5 comes from.
S1-50% homozygous so 50% variation
S2-75% homozygous so 25% variation
S3-87.5% homozygous so 12.5% variation.

I'm all over it Squidman :thumbs: it was a bit of a dumb question but I thought there might be differential material between F1 and S1. Here's a more intelligent question, has the genome for cannabis been mapped out?
 
Keep in mind that every single living organism harbors lethal alleles. Most of these are recessive, and masked my heterozygosity. In populations, heterozygosity is a measure of overall diversity, and therefore ability to resist pressures and adapt, or a general measure of population health. This is why F1 crosses are said to have hybrid vigor. The heterozygosity created in an F1 creates hardy, fast growing plants. It will mask any harmful recessive alleles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterozygote_advantage

When selfing a plant, you increase homozygosity by reinforcing dominant or recessive alleles. However, in a population of individuals - a given recessive allele for a gene in one individual is different from that same recessive allele in another individual - even though they have the same effect. For example, the autoflower is a homozygous recessive- however, one autoflower population may have one version of the allele (lets say the "lowryder" autoflower allele) while a different population has a slightly different sequence of DNA that codes for the same autoflower effect. (stitch's hungarian ditchweed or whatever he got his super auto allele from). This isn't bad for autoflower alleles to be identical by descent, but out of the thousands of genes in cannabis that will randomly drift towards homozygosity during your selfing project (what if it is cannabis cancer, or a gene that causes leaves to deform), this will inevitably lead to a depressed line.

Selfing increases the chances that BOTH recessive alleles come from ONE parent. This is a bad situation because this is where seed viability drops, plants make sterile pollen or sterile pistils, albino leaves, etc. Selfing is the quickest path to genetic deformities and inbreeding depression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding_depression

However, Highly inbred lines make great breeding tools. You can be sure that the phenotypes you see in the selfed line plant breed true - which will help when chasing those same traits in the f2 of a hybrid line. If you are using a plant for its lemon scent, but unbeknownst to you it is a heterozygote, (not a homozygote like a selfed line would produce), you will see no sign of lemon in your F1s, AND only half of the F1s will be beterozygous for the lemon trait, while half don't have the allele at all. However, IF in your inbred line you locked down blueberry scent, and all the resulting seeds show blueberry scent, you can be sure that your inbred line breeds true for that particular trait. If you were to cross this with something way different, for example thai, you could be sure that in the F2 you would have some plants that smelled like blueberry.
 
Yes, you have to be careful with selfing from what I understand. Stress test your plants before doing so, to know if they have hermie or other traits, and if so, then you obviously don't wanna work with those.
But selfing can produce some really quality strains, you just have to do it correctly. I trust cres. Thanks for the input mattinuk!
 
base pairs now your talking guy's this relate to the bible of "Higher Terrestrial Plants" The "Mendel's Ratio" for genetic outcomes. This will put you right re f1-f2 back-crosses for prefered trait outcomes. This is how "Super Auto's" happened the lower allele traint for 'height" was successfully isolated into small stuff, the original ruddy short stuff. Look now in "Indoor seymours dutch passion 'Tiega" strain is such an outcome of the new regular photo pheno height trait, coming out in the short stuff !!..........or is it the LED Power ??.............anything is pos under LED !!...............best carma to all, and good luck with backcross, c you in 3 yrs??........and 10 no tents in therm controlled air-con room !!........
 
Yes, you have to be careful with selfing from what I understand. Stress test your plants before doing so, to know if they have hermie or other traits, and if so, then you obviously don't wanna work with those.
But selfing can produce some really quality strains, you just have to do it correctly. I trust cres. Thanks for the input mattinuk!


No squid, selfing makes exceptional individuals, not strains. Small distinction, but keep in mind many people self a plant to find another clone mother, because the original mother is showing signs of aging. Many of the seeds wont sprout, many will have deformities (past the S1) etc, but also, statistically you are bound to find one that is very similar or identical to the parent. Most people that self do so to find a young plant with most of the qualities of their aging mother. Where, compared with autoflowers, which must be grown from seed, if you have a genetic deformity and only 50 or 60% seed germination (common in hermaphroditic sativa lines) and out of those few that sprout, some are deformed, that is not a good strain. However, if selfing THE one and only SFV OG clone, it doesn't matter how many runts and deformities there are as long as at least one is healthy and has most of the mother characteristics. This way they can get the vigor of a young plant compared to a 10 year old clone.

Its generally unadvisable to go past the S1.
 
So basically selfing is good to find an individual for a clone mother that has all the desirable characteristics, but is generally a bad long term breeding strategy for making healthy lines. Especially well documented in corn, the yield comparisons of inbred line corns to hybrids is mind blowing. Keep in mind that the hybrids had no selection - they were F1, but blew away each individual inbred parent. Though you can have strict selection during your selfing process, unless you have huge plant numbers, you are not likely to have many individuals come out on the right side of "DJs law of Selection". However, you can always use a slow growing, deformed inbred line to outcross to a brother or sister from the F1 (the same cross that your S1 parent came from), instantly restoring vigor to the line.
 
To my understanding, this is not what I am being told.

Go back and read my other questions and then answers from cres, a very good and reputable breeder and grower here.. It seems there are several differing opinions on these matter. I have done a ton of research on breeding and it's all sorta different, but I trust cres to know what he is talking about.

While I am sure some of your info is factual I just feel that there are different opinions from different people on the same thing. Thanks man.
 
Back
Top