Small population photo-to-auto breeding?

[Blu_tri]

@DIRT I’m trying to understand what you are saying.
f1 =p x a. We grow these out and breed them to together to get our f2. ?
f2 = pa x pa. Now we grow these out and see which ones will auto for us. We used the auto flowering ones to make our F3’s.
f3 = a x a. So we have full autos at this point.
F3 full autos are very doable by anyone’s math.
Some breeder will take the short cuts and a breed the f1 to a full auto… in which case 25% of the offspring will still be photo dependent. I will assume, by their calculations, it’s an acceptable loss. Thus the reason people are complaining about their plants not auto flowering. So in other words, someone was in a rush to take your money. Plz forgive the runon.

 

[DIRT]

@DIRT I’m trying to understand what you are saying.
f1 =p x a. We grow these out and breed them to together to get our f2. ?
f2 = pa x pa. Now we grow these out and see which ones will auto for us. We used the auto flowering ones to make our F3’s.
f3 = a x a. So we have full autos at this point.
F3 full autos are very doable by anyone’s math.

(photo) P1 x P1(auto) = F1
F1 x F1 = F2
The auto trait will show in roughly 25% of the F2 population, make F3's with that 25% and they will be stable for the auto trait at F3.

@DIRT
Some breeder will take the short cuts and a breed the f1 to a full auto… in which case 25% of the offspring will still be photo dependent. I will assume, by their calculations, it’s an acceptable loss. Thus the reason people are complaining about their plants not auto flowering. So in other words, someone was in a rush to take your money. Plz forgive the runon.

Its an unfortunate mix of poor breeding and shitty humans beings out for personal gain, that ruin the experience for so many. It's a shame a travesty and sadly the nature of the beast nowadays.

 

[Fitzy]

That maybe true...but at what ratio 1in1000?

I usually pop 100 seeds of one particular strain and filial generation as a benchmark when I'm breeding to take a line further, And I personally have yet to see a photoperiod plant in my F3 photo x auto projects or in successive generations, sometimes growing as many as 300 F3's of one particular line....but that's just my own personal firsthand experience up to this point in time.

I know its possible for a photo to show up in the F3, I just haven't seen it myself when using two day neutral F2 plants to make those F3 seeds.

The same thing could also be said about fem seed be it photo or auto...
You might still find a small number of males in large populations of what should be 100% feminised seed.

I guess It all boils down to selection and luck, unless you have lab access and can tinker with genetic markers..it mostly depends on luck,imo.

You can always predict using a punnett square...but mother nature can always take you for a ride in a different direction.

breeding is like a box of chocolates, ya never know what your gonna get.

But again I do agree with you mostly.

Godspeed F4 after some pre-emptive culling.

View attachment 1359038

I've seen this first hand when crossing stilton special x 3bears both where supposedly stable offerings thru mephisto which there the 1s who actually did this above cross now I and a few others i no personally had this same issue ive also seen this with Ripleys og x auto ultimate about half where hermie so it really seems luck of the draw just like running 3 f1 photo to auto cross and 2 being full auto it doesn't happen often but it does the problem with a recessive trait is u won't see it till its to late but I totally know wat ur saying out of any auto regs I've bread I've had I only had an issue with an f1 Ripleys og that I pollenated with f3 pollen that I've used on close to 50 other crosses and again never an issue so ya it seems like it's partly luck of the draw.

 

[Blu_tri]

Here is my take on why crosses hermie. When each strain comes from a different breeder, they are used to being treated differently. So in the cross, the plant is confused as to which grow technique that it prefers,
Also I expect hermies when i grow someone else’s gear, simply because I do not know how to treat it like the breeder does.
In my opinion, a grower can take a hermie plant and breed it for a couple of generations, as it get used to the grower’s technique, it will no longer hermie.
Because the plant designates itself as male or female, they all carry the ability to hermie.
The goal of life is to proliferate. Drop a single female cannabis in an isolated location. It will give a male time to make pollinate her. If pollination doesn’t occur within a set time, she will automatically make her own pollen to create her next generation.
Damaging a plant during budding, is the easiest way to get hermies. The plant takes the damage as if an animal is eating off the plant. Most animals will not eat the entire plant, and save some for the next meal. The cannabis plant know that the animal will return. So to ensure her future, she will immediately pollinate herself to make offsprings. It is what it is.

 

[LabRat]

My take on hermies after growing for a lot of years is it's genetically based and stress will bring out the trait in borderline cases but a real stable plant won't hermie no matter how abusive you are to it.

I have suffered from chronic depression/PTSD for over 40 years and that can cause me to neglect the hell out of my plants for months sometimes. Root bound, dried to near death, HST to the max and any number of other abuses but still they don't herm on me. A friend once gave me over 100 seeds of Afghani Kush that he found while cropping a 40 plant grow so I sprouted 40 of them and grew out 36. About a third came out as herm right away, another third started showing balls or 'nanners midway through flowering and the last ones grew as true females to the end.

I had taken cuts from the best growing plants in veg and of course some were males that showed when flowered so once the mothers showed herms I tossed those cuts and moved some from fathers to collect pollen separately from a few. I selectively pollinated some of the girls being careful to tag everybody as to what pollen was used and make sure there was no accidental pollination. Once the dusted girls finished I only kept seeds from those that finished up with no signs of herm traits. One of the males actually grew some pistils so a reverse herm and seeds from it's pollen were discarded too.

I ended up with a couple hundred good seeds from 3 true females and when I grew some out had predominately females that all grew true. I sent seeds to 3 people that also grew out some and not one had a herm. They all commented on how 3/4 were girls and one guy that grew 10 had only 1 male.

As far as I'm concerned if a plant goes hermie it was genetically destined to do so and the breeder wasn't careful enough to make sure that trait wasn't passed on to the seeds he offered for others.

That's my 2¢ on the subject.