Real Science vs Bro Science: Ohhh some of you are NOT going to like this!

[WildBill]

Without fully watching the vid, I'm gonna preface the compost argument on good bugs vs possible pathogens that could be present in compost with my own experiences.

I've made HUGE amounts of compost in my life. All ingredients were from organic(organic by abstinence of chemical amendments) and/or non-medicated(no antibiotic or hormones) sources.
I made my compost in my Coastal Bermuda fields. I made them in rows as high as the front end loader could dump and roughly 15ft wide. Tops were flattened or peaked based on the seasonal rain pattern........flat during dry periods and peaked during rainy to conserve or reject moisture in the pile.
Piles were turned when core temps were close to ambient to limit fuel, time and moisture expenditures. Naturally some leachate made it into the soil and I purposely left a layer of compost where the pile was when turning the pile. I basically just pushed and built back up the entire line of compost by the width of the pile. As the the pile was turned and made it's way across the field, an incredibly thick and lush growth followed. I did inoculate my piles in the beginning with a Medina product, but stopped after first couple of years, just using and enhancing what was naturally present.
When making teas, I only used unsulphered molasses to feed the microbes and brewed it in big bags my Mom made for 36-48 hours depending on ambient temps. Not once in over 20yrs did I have a problem with any pathogens in the Coastal fields, orchard or garden. My tomatoes or cantaloupes never got mosaic virus either, I guess the plants had their natural immunity response boosted.

 

[bil]

I have to admit this video felt like the guest were high on sniffing their own farts (and were enjoying it). I checked out after about 2h.

It came across as a bit popmous, and they all seemed so sure of what they were saying. So ready to discredit the other side. I didn't know that Jim and Jeff are not friendly to each other. and I would bet that lady and Jeff are not friends either.

I brew my teas to farm microbes. I like to think when I add my tea to my plants it's a booster shot of life to the dirt. IME, since stopping using bottled nutes and just doing this, I like my bud better. It's more tasty this way and in the long run will be cheaper.

 

[WildBill]

I have to admit this video felt like the guest were high on sniffing their own farts (and were enjoying it). I checked out after about 2h.

It came across as a bit popmous, and they all seemed so sure of what they were saying. So ready to discredit the other side. I didn't know that Jim and Jeff are not friendly to each other. and I would bet that lady and Jeff are not friends either.

I brew my teas to farm microbes. I like to think when I add my tea to my plants it's a booster shot of life to the dirt. IME, since stopping using bottled nutes and just doing this, I like my bud better. It's more tasty this way and in the long run will be cheaper.

So in a nutshell, what did they say about compost and teas?

 

[bil]

A big take away (not from this podcast) that I have gotten so far from learning about compost tea is it should never smell sour or bad. If it is, then something went wrong and you have changed the culture from aerobic(good for roots and plants) to anaerobic (bad, think rot and death).

She went on about how teas are a waste of time. She said the only reason compost teas are a thing, is because people sell all the equipment for brewing it. They are too dilute. and that you may as well just use compost and mulch straight up, she said. Something that threw me off was she talked about anaerobic bacteria being in these teas (which is the opposite of what we want no? This is why aeration is so important I thought?)

She kept talking bout it being too diluted, weak and a waste of time and money. If I'm farming microbes, won't the microbe count be much higher than it was compared to the total count when i started in the bucket? It may be less than using full strength compost and mulch in my plants, but it's economical, for me to breed these microbes myself, rather than use up my compost bag and all the things i like to use in my brew

for context the big things i use everything are earth worm castings, forest soil, a dash of both fish and leaf compost, molasses, alfalfa OR kelp meal.

I sometimes add other things too but these are the big ones I use every time

 

[pop22]

The point she made was there is a thoud\sand times more microbes in the compost than in the tea and that just plain old compost will do the job and do it better.

I have to admit this video felt like the guest were high on sniffing their own farts (and were enjoying it). I checked out after about 2h.

It came across as a bit popmous, and they all seemed so sure of what they were saying. So ready to discredit the other side. I didn't know that Jim and Jeff are not friendly to each other. and I would bet that lady and Jeff are not friends either.

I brew my teas to farm microbes. I like to think when I add my tea to my plants it's a booster shot of life to the dirt. IME, since stopping using bottled nutes and just doing this, I like my bud better. It's more tasty this way and in the long run will be cheaper.

 

[pop22]

That they are a waste of time. The are also acidic and lower the PH of the soil. And that people will continue to sing the praises of teas even when science shows they do nothing of real value. It boils down to people believing what they want to believe vs the facts presented by science. Kinda like all the bullshit being spread denying the corona virus these days....

So in a nutshell, what did they say about compost and teas?

 

[pop22]

Maybe that attitude comes from having spent so much time trying to convince those that refuse to accept the scientific facts. Denying science does not make anyone right to think their opinion ranks above the facts.

I have to admit this video felt like the guest were high on sniffing their own farts (and were enjoying it). I checked out after about 2h.

It came across as a bit popmous, and they all seemed so sure of what they were saying. So ready to discredit the other side. I didn't know that Jim and Jeff are not friendly to each other. and I would bet that lady and Jeff are not friends either.

I brew my teas to farm microbes. I like to think when I add my tea to my plants it's a booster shot of life to the dirt. IME, since stopping using bottled nutes and just doing this, I like my bud better. It's more tasty this way and in the long run will be cheaper.

 

[bil]

let me ask this then.

If a 1 kg pile of compost contains "x" amount of microbes. And I then take a small portion (lets say 1/10th) of that pile and breed more life from it in the form of a tea. I start with 1 10th the microbes of the pile of compost yes, but then after I brewed my tea, will I not have more than 1/10th the original microbe count? Now, lets say I repeat this 10x to use all the compost up.

Will there be more microbes in that entire pile of compost or will there be more microbes in the total amount of tea I brew?

As long as I have actually increased the number of microbes in the tea, than I had when I started. The tea wins, (total microbe count) no?

 

[pop22]

One problem with this concept is that people brew the tea way too long. Population in the tea peaks and falls of with in 4-6 hours. Even then, you have fewer microbes. Which has more food for the microbes to breed in, A quart of compost or a quart of water with a handful of compost in it?. Lastly, as mentioned in the video, you have no idea WHAT microbes your propagating in the tea and whether or not they'll compete with the existing population to the determent of the plant. If you already have good, healthy organic soil, why disturb the population you have that is obviously doing a good job? Aren't we warned against distrubing the soil population in organic bed/pots by digging and raking? Isn't doing this just as bad?

let me ask this then.

If a 1 kg pile of compost contains "x" amount of microbes. And I then take a small portion (lets say 1/10th) of that pile and breed more life from it in the form of a tea. I start with 1 10th the microbes of the pile of compost yes, but then after I brewed my tea, will I not have more than 1/10th the original microbe count? Now, lets say I repeat this 10x to use all the compost up.

Will there be more microbes in that entire pile of compost or will there be more microbes in the total amount of tea I brew?

As long as I have actually increased the number of microbes in the tea, than I had when I started. The tea wins, (total microbe count) no?

 

[WildBill]

A big take away (not from this podcast) that I have gotten so far from learning about compost tea is it should never smell sour or bad. If it is, then something went wrong and you have changed the culture from aerobic(good for roots and plants) to anaerobic (bad, think rot and death).

She went on about how teas are a waste of time. She said the only reason compost teas are a thing, is because people sell all the equipment for brewing it. They are too dilute. and that you may as well just use compost and mulch straight up, she said. Something that threw me off was she talked about anaerobic bacteria being in these teas (which is the opposite of what we want no? This is why aeration is so important I thought?)

She kept talking bout it being too diluted, weak and a waste of time and money. If I'm farming microbes, won't the microbe count be much higher than it was compared to the total count when i started in the bucket? It may be less than using full strength compost and mulch in my plants, but it's economical, for me to breed these microbes myself, rather than use up my compost bag and all the things i like to use in my brew

for context the big things i use everything are earth worm castings, forest soil, a dash of both fish and leaf compost, molasses, alfalfa OR kelp meal.

I sometimes add other things too but these are the big ones I use every time

A pile can go anaerobic from being too wet, adding too much meat(I've never added meat), too fine material without larger material. Combine too wet and too fine and it will go anaerobic quick! I had several contacts of companies that cleared power lines of trees to dump their shredded tree trimmings on a location on my farm. Crazy good stuff to add to a compost pile that also keep air in the pile.
Sure you're gonna get a BETTER benefit from just applying the compost to the soil, but it's silly to say the benefit is too small using teas. I've sprayed a field several days after a good rain, after the green up from the rain, and got MORE of a green up the next day. That quick of a green up mainly would come from the nutes in the tea as a foliar feed, but that section stayed green longer than other parts of the field.
This all being said, a very valid point could be made that in LARGE operations, just applying the compost to the soil is a better economical option with sizable labor and fuel savings. This wouldn't apply to a home or small canna grow. I felt it was still viable for me since I put the used compost on my garden.
When I was finished with brewing the teas, I took the heavy ass bags and dumped the material on to my garden. When I first started mass brewing teas, I had my Mom make the bags waaaay too big to get outta the tank without straining my ass far too much! LOL! I modded the fiberglass 500gal tanks to have a larger top to get bigger bags in. It still made things easier when I switched to the smaller ones. Live and learn!