Quick and Simple Cannabis Topical Healing Ointment

[Olde School Player]

Hmmmm, article sez "Grinding cannabis root into a fine powder is one of the most traditional ways to use it...." I wonder what effect it would have on cream consistency if you dried then pulverized the roots, and added the resulting powder to the ointment mix when simmering / before filtering through the cheesecloth? I have a shit ton of fan leaves but I've always thrown the roots in the garbage. My TH Seeds Auto original BubbleGum will be coming down in the near future, I just may have to save the roots and give that a try.

Now I also have to admit, this convo takes me back to my high school days when we had these crude insults to hurl at each other. One was calling someone a Root Doctor and another was just yelling "Eat a root". Damn, the things teenagers come up with, may not have been that insulting after all????? I'm so ashamed

 

[HemiSync]

Hmmmm, article sez "Grinding cannabis root into a fine powder is one of the most traditional ways to use it...." I wonder what effect it would have on cream consistency if you dried then pulverized the roots, and added the resulting powder to the ointment mix when simmering / before filtering through the cheesecloth? I have a shit ton of fan leaves but I've always thrown the roots in the garbage. My TH Seeds Auto original BubbleGum will be coming down in the near future, I just may have to save the roots and give that a try.

Now I also have to admit, this convo takes me back to my high school days when we had these crude insults to hurl at each other. One was calling someone a Root Doctor and another was just yelling "Eat a root". Damn, the things teenagers come up with, may not have been that insulting after all????? I'm so ashamed

I know they can be a pain to cut & grind up when dry, so I’m taking the fresh roots from my current harvest straight out of the pots into a bucket of water to wash them of and keep them moist. Then chop them up while still moist and then let them dry out. I know a salve maker that gets her rootballs from a grower dry and she uses a mini wood chipper to cut them up. They can be some tough roots when dry.

 

[Olde School Player]

@Root Hey Granny Roody, thanks for stopping by. You said you used to make a topical from roots, about how much by volume (dried and pulverized) would you recommend adding? Not sure if you read this whole thread, so here is the basic ingredients I follow:

2 cups dried / frozen / crushed trim (if using fan leaves, remove the stem. Not mandatory but makes crushing & straining much easier. They don't strain well)
2 cups coconut oil (I’ve used LouAna brand from the baking section of the grocery)
2 oz beeswax (2oz by weight or volume are the same for natural beeswax)
Approx ¼ to ½ oz. / 7 - 15mL therapeutic grade essential oil, more or less per notes

Should I reduce the fan leaf volume by a similar volume as the root?
Or will the root material strain out similarly to the crushed leaf?
Or should I add the root powder after simmering and straining the leaf matter? What effect would this have on the consistency of the ointment? Would it add any graininess?
Lastly, have you had any experience using lecithin as the carrier in lieu of, or in addition to coconut oil?

Thanks in advance for your input, much appreciated.

 

[Olde School Player]

I know they can be a pain to cut & grind up when dry, so I’m taking the fresh roots from my current harvest straight out of the pots into a bucket of water to wash them of and keep them moist. Then chop them up while still moist and then let hem dry out. I know a salve maker that gets her rootballs from a grower dry and she uses a mini wood chipper to cut them up. They can be some tough roots when dry.

Hmmmm, I grow in hydroton & for years I've reclaimed it after each grow. I usually just dump the root balls into containers & let them sit until dried out, then dump them on a screen of 1/4" hardware cloth (wire) and bust them up while vacuuming the mess with my mini-shop vac with a 2" net pot taped over the nozzle. The resulting powder was pretty fine as I recall. The mini vac is never used for anything except my grow room, leaves & roots, so no contamination problems. Or guessing a run through the food processor would tear the stuff up. More drying then a mortar & pestle? This all discounting use of the major roots of pencil or larger diameter; I'm thinking of the fibrous capillary roots only. My grows make bricks of these, I have to bust them up to reclaim the grow rocks.

 

[HemiSync]

Hmmmm, I grow in hydroton & for years I've reclaimed it after each grow. I usually just dump the root balls into containers & let them sit until dried out, then dump them on a screen of 1/4" hardware cloth (wire) and bust them up while vacuuming the mess with my mini-shop vac with a 2" net pot taped over the nozzle. The resulting powder was pretty fine as I recall. The mini vac is never used for anything except my grow room, leaves & roots, so no contamination problems. Or guessing a run through the food processor would tear the stuff up. More drying then a mortar & pestle? This all discounting use of the major roots of pencil or larger diameter; I'm thinking of the fibrous capillary roots only. My grows make bricks of these, I have to bust them up to reclaim the grow rocks.

I imagine any hydro grown roots are going to be a lot easier to clean and work with than roots grown in soil or even outside. I would worry about a food processor because of the fiberous nature of the roots one might get some blades all wrapped up in strands. The roots are all new to me so will be interesting to see how it goes.

Normally my rootballs go into a 40 gallon trash can along with the coco I used, full of water and a couple scoops of pondzyme. Then I throw in a giant air stone and let it bubble for a month or two stirring it every couple days to make sure the stuff on the bottom is not stagnating. When done the roots are gone, the coco is black, and it is some good stuff for planting again.

 

[Root]

@Root Hey Granny Roody, thanks for stopping by. You said you used to make a topical from roots, about how much by volume (dried and pulverized) would you recommend adding? Not sure if you read this whole thread, so here is the basic ingredients I follow:

2 cups dried / frozen / crushed trim (if using fan leaves, remove the stem. Not mandatory but makes crushing & straining much easier. They don't strain well)
2 cups coconut oil (I’ve used LouAna brand from the baking section of the grocery)
2 oz beeswax (2oz by weight or volume are the same for natural beeswax)
Approx ¼ to ½ oz. / 7 - 15mL therapeutic grade essential oil, more or less per notes

Should I reduce the fan leaf volume by a similar volume as the root?
Or will the root material strain out similarly to the crushed leaf?
Or should I add the root powder after simmering and straining the leaf matter? What effect would this have on the consistency of the ointment? Would it add any graininess?
Lastly, have you had any experience using lecithin as the carrier in lieu of, or in addition to coconut oil?

Thanks in advance for your input, much appreciated.

Hey @Olde School Player, I have been following this thread
I like that you are showing how easy it is to make this stuff with things most people already have in their kitchens. Topicals can be life changing for chronic pain and skin issues.
I wash, dry and rough cut the roots. I don't want them too small because then they are a pain to strain. They don't dissolve, so unless they are ground super fine, it will be gritty.
I have never added them to trim, but I imagine it would make a super good topical.
I don't measure the material I infuse for topicals. Using mostly leaves and/or roots I would add enough material to just stay submerged in the oil.
So if you want to add roots to your ointment, I would add roots after the 2 cups of trim is in the coconut oil. That way you are adding to your ointment (that you know works well for you)
I do use powdered sunflower lecithin. It increases the bioavailability of cannabinoids and improves absorption through the skin. It also is an emulsifier for oil/water and water/oil topicals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11358109
Final report on the safety assessment of Lecithin and Hydrogenated Lecithin.
Fiume Z1.
Author information

Abstract
Lecithin is a naturally occurring mixture of the diglycerides of stearic, palmitic, and oleic acids, linked to the choline ester of phosphoric acid, commonly called phosphatidylcholine. Hydrogenated Lecithin is the product of controlled hydrogenation of Lecithin. Bilayers of these phospholipids in water may form liposomes, a spherical structure in which the acyl chains are inside and not exposed to the aqueous phase. Lecithin and Hydrogenated Lecithin are used in a large number of cosmetic formulations as skin conditioning agents-miscellaneous and as surfactant-emulsifying agents. Hydrogenated Lecithin is also used as a suspending agent-nonsurfactant. Historical data on concentration of use of Lecithin reveals that 0.1% to 1.0% is the concentration range most frequently seen, with concentrations up to 50% reported for two moisturizing products. A solution of 65% Lecithin is currently reported to be used at concentrations up to 3% in cosmetics. Nonocclusive application of Lecithin-containing liposomes to murine skin resulted in 30% penetration to the subdermis. In piglet skin, the same application resulted in 99% accumulating in the stratum corneum. In general, liposomes are considered effective in capturing other compounds inside their spherical structure and delivering any such captured compound through the skin barrier. As a result, caution should be exhibited in formulating cosmetic products that contain these ingredients in combination with other ingredients whose safety is based on their lack of absorption or where dermal absorption is a concern. Lecithin is virtually nontoxic in acute oral studies, short-term oral studies, and subchronic dermal studies in animals. Lecithin is not a reproductive toxicant, nor is it mutagenic in several assays. In an oral carcinogenicity study, brain neoplasms were found in mice exposed to Lecithin. In a subcutaneous carcinogenicity study, no neoplasms were found in mice and rats exposed to Lecithin. Adverse reactions to Lecithin in a metered-dose inhaler have been reported. Lecithin and Hydrogenated Lecithin were generally nonirritating and nonsensitizing in animal and human skin. Based on the available data, Lecithin and Hydrogenated Lecithin are safe as used in rinse-off cosmetic products; they may be safely used in leave-on products at concentrations up to 15%, the highest concentration tested in clinical irritation and sensitization studies; but the safety of use could not be substantiated in cosmetic products likely to be inhaled. Because of the possibility of formation of nitrosamines, these ingredients should not be used in cosmetic products in which N-nitroso compounds may be formed.

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I'll also comment on masking the smell of cannabis in topicals..
I use unrefined coconut oil that smells (and tastes) like coconuts and I use cocoa butter that smells like chocolate. That masks a lot of the canna smell - if that is still too much smell you can water cure the cannabis which will take out all the color, taste and smell.

:smoking:

 

[Olde School Player]

@Root Ms. Roody, not sure how I missed your reply earlier this week, apologies for my delayed reply & many thanks for your follow up.
I run hydro so I'm thinking the clean up & reclamation of my roots will be a breeze compared to dirt farmers. Looking forward to trying that when my current crop comes down, should be enough roots to easily make another batch of cream. So for root material volume I'll add whatever amount the carrier oil will cover during the low heat process, thanks.
The suggestion of unrefined coconut oil or cocoa butter is much appreciated as well. Mmmmm, chocolate.... can't go wrong there. With that suggestion, am I to assume you don't believe in the addition of essential oils? Not that I'm opposed to leaving them out, just curious to learn more about this topic.

On the topic of lecithin, I read the abstract data with much interest, but honestly, I'm having a bit of trouble discerning a proper amount to add. Per the following statement:
"0.1% to 1.0% is the concentration range most frequently seen, with concentrations up to 50% reported for two moisturizing products. A solution of 65% Lecithin is currently reported to be used at concentrations up to 3% in cosmetics" That data seems to give a grossly large range, from 0.1% all the way up to 50%. Then a 65% strength product used at 3%, if I understand that math would be equivalent to 2% (0.65 X 3%). But the higher range concentration up to 50% implies that up to one half of my total volume could be lecithin, as I do see this product having moisturizing effects. But therein lies my confusion with strength ranging from 0.1% up to 50%.

I am most interested in improving absorption through the skin barrier, so I think toward the higher end of the spectrum, but that's just a guess. ​

Given the recipe I've used, what would your thoughts be for amount of lecithin to be added to the recipe? With a corresponding reduction in volume of the carrier oil, or in complete addition to that volume?

Your input once again is GREATLY appreciated.

 

[HemiSync]

@Root Ms. Roody, not sure how I missed your reply earlier this week, apologies for my delayed reply & many thanks for your follow up.
I run hydro so I'm thinking the clean up & reclamation of my roots will be a breeze compared to dirt farmers. Looking forward to trying that when my current crop comes down, should be enough roots to easily make another batch of cream. So for root material volume I'll add whatever amount the carrier oil will cover during the low heat process, thanks.
The suggestion of unrefined coconut oil or cocoa butter is much appreciated as well. Mmmmm, chocolate.... can't go wrong there. With that suggestion, am I to assume you don't believe in the addition of essential oils? Not that I'm opposed to leaving them out, just curious to learn more about this topic.

On the topic of lecithin, I read the abstract data with much interest, but honestly, I'm having a bit of trouble discerning a proper amount to add. Per the following statement:
"0.1% to 1.0% is the concentration range most frequently seen, with concentrations up to 50% reported for two moisturizing products. A solution of 65% Lecithin is currently reported to be used at concentrations up to 3% in cosmetics" That data seems to give a grossly large range, from 0.1% all the way up to 50%. Then a 65% strength product used at 3%, if I understand that math would be equivalent to 2% (0.65 X 3%). But the higher range concentration up to 50% implies that up to one half of my total volume could be lecithin, as I do see this product having moisturizing effects. But therein lies my confusion with strength ranging from 0.1% up to 50%.

I am most interested in improving absorption through the skin barrier, so I think toward the higher end of the spectrum, but that's just a guess. ​

Given the recipe I've used, what would your thoughts be for amount of lecithin to be added to the recipe? With a corresponding reduction in volume of the carrier oil, or in complete addition to that volume?

Your input once again is GREATLY appreciated.

I’m not sure if it translates over to topicals but in cooking we add 1 tablespoon of lecithin to every cup of oil to make it more bioavailable.

 

[Root]

I am most interested in improving absorption through the skin barrier, so I think toward the higher end of the spectrum, but that's just a guess. ​

Given the recipe I've used, what would your thoughts be for amount of lecithin to be added to the recipe? With a corresponding reduction in volume of the carrier oil, or in complete addition to that volume?

I don't really know that much about lecithin. I use powdered sunflower lecithin and put it in medables when I remember.
Do you have liquid or powder lecithin?
I took 1/2 cup coconut oil and 2 Tablespoons powdered sunflower lecithin.
It mixed in well and whipped up nice and smooth like peanut butter.

It's thick enough without beeswax in it as long as it doesn't get warm.
It melted right into my skin....I wished I had used canna oil.
I put some everclear tincture in a little bit and that worked too. Absorbed right in and is not greasy.


Lecithin is non toxic but it will pull everything with it into the skin ( like DMSO but not as strong?).

I am most interested in improving absorption through the skin barrier, so I think toward the higher end of the spectrum,

I think adding lecithin to your ointment will improve the absorption. I've never worked with the liquid, but the powder mixed in well and made it thicker. I'd probably reduce the beeswax a bit, not the carrier oil.

With that suggestion, am I to assume you don't believe in the addition of essential oils? Not that I'm opposed to leaving them out, just curious to learn more about this topic.

I don't use essential oils because I make the rubs for other people. Sometimes essential oils can cause allergic reaction even when you haven't had a reaction before. So, to be on the safe side I don't add them.

 

[Olde School Player]

@Root Thanks Ms. Roody. Powdered or liquid... I don't have either yet, although I like the sound of the powder thickening the end product.

The beeswax does a good job so it doesn't turn to liquid at around 76 (77?) degrees F., and it is naturally antibacterial, but I like the idea of increased absorption. I think I'll reduce, maybe even omit that on my next batch. It's easy enough to add later if I decide I need it. ​

The everclear tincture - you added that to lecithin only?

You said you wished you'd used canna oil. I'm new to edibles entirely, so I did a quick search on canna oil & it seems that's made using olive, coconut or canola oil. With olive and coconut having a higher fat content than canola, therefore absorbing more of the active cannabinoids. So if I'm understanding your "...I wished I had used canna oil" statement, that would be to capture the cannabinoids in the oil first? Or would that complete the process with the exception of adding lecithin, or a lesser amount of beeswax if needed to maintain consistency at room temperature?

I'm going to experiment with this in a few weeks after I've reclaimed the roots from my current grow. Looking forward to your reply, and I'll keep you posted.