Indoor Jack Herer Auto rDWC
- Thread starter jER
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I nearly sent my self insane a few months ago working out precise NPK ratios by mixing the three GH Flora nutes, I felt like Russell Crow in A Beautiful Mind when they walk into his office and the walls are covered in thousands of bits of analysis. OK maybe not that bad but it got to the point where I'd go back to check stuff and I couldn't remember what it all meant. The following is a sample of my descent into madness... fortunately I'm now cured.
Veg Weeks 2—4 Micro Grow Bloom ratio 1, 2, 1 ppm as required
Preflower Week 5, Micro Grow Bloom ratio 3, 3, 4,
So 50 50 80 then reduce by 40%. 30 30. 48 made a 940ppm solution needed nearly 1ml of UP
Transition 3/3/5. 52.5, 52.5, 84. Reduce by by 40% = 21, 21, 33 maybe leave at 30, 30, 48
v8 to finish ratio Micro Grow Bloom 2, 1, 3 ppm 1200
***WEEK 7 try 3/2/5 7.5ml 5ml 12ml x 7 = 52ml. 35ml. 84ml -40% = 31ml. 21ml. 50ml. == 19N 27P 32K 1N 1.4P 1.7K
Week 8 flower try ratio 2/1/3. 40ml 20ml 60ml. 12/16/20. Ratio 2/1/4. 12/21/24 30ml 15ml 60ml
GH Say 3/1/5. 17/21/30
GH say to finish bloom at 4N 10P 9K which is 1 micro 2 bloom
Vegetative Stage
N - P - K
3 - 1 - 2
Flowering Stage
N - P - K
1 - 1 - 2
Final Flowering Stage
N - P - K
0 - 1 - 2
To translate this into a 12 week schedule for a typical Skunk type such as Cheese or Psychosis would give something along these lines:
40 20 60
Veg week 1: 3 - 1 - 2
Veg week 2: 3 - 1 - 2
Flo week 1 : 3 - 1 - 2
Flo week 2 : 3 - 1 - 2
Flo week 3 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 4 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 5 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 6 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 7 : 0 - 1 - 2
Flo week 8 : 0 - 1 - 2
Flo week 9 : 0 - 0 - 0
Flo week 10: 0 - 0 - 0
GH 3 - 1 - 5 vs sensi early flower 3 - 3 - 5 peak flower 2 - 1 - 3
17 / 26 / 29 .75N / 1P / 1.5K 3N / 4P / 5K N
.65 / 1 / 1.1
3 / 4.6 / 5.1
Sensei Recommendation Mix for GH M/G/B
Early Flower 1 / 1 / 1.5
Peak Flower 1 / 2.5 / 2.5
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I'm back!
So after 10 days working in west texas I returned to find my tent getting pretty full, and everything still mostly alive despite a few problems including my wife forgetting to turn off the top up tank and overfilling the system by an extra 40L. Luckily there was just enough extra capacity in the buckets and the top up tank was only half full by that point and so it didn't overflow all over the floor!
The jack in the front left has grown almost 2 feet since I left and has forced the light pretty much up to the max height I have available. It is much bigger than the other three and is crowding into their space.
The front right plant is pretty sick, it was the farthest ahead in terms of flower when I left, and was completely changing in physiology. It started forming only 3 blade fans which were much thinner than it previous leaves, and the flowers were much further ahead than the others. It hasn't grown much at all since I left and it now has what I am thinking is a pretty serious calcium def. Many of the top leaves are covered in rusty coloured spots, filling in between the veins on the fans. What do you guys think is the problem with her?
She is definately pretty stressed and I am a little worried she'll hermie. I've seen a few things on her that look like might be nuts, but there are some similar looking ones that have two hairs coming out of them so maybe they are just swelling calyxs.
The two in the back look healthy, but still a fair bit smaller than the front left one. I did a fair bit more defoiliation to try to get some more airflow around the tent and to help the smaller plants get some more light. I cleaned up the small wilting shoots around the bottom that had re-grown but werent getting enough light as well. Going to do a water change tommorrow, the EC has been getting pretty high and think that is what is causing the front right plant to get locked out of calcium (if that is what is going on there). Ph has been pretty stable at around 5.9 for the whole time I was away.
So after 10 days working in west texas I returned to find my tent getting pretty full, and everything still mostly alive despite a few problems including my wife forgetting to turn off the top up tank and overfilling the system by an extra 40L. Luckily there was just enough extra capacity in the buckets and the top up tank was only half full by that point and so it didn't overflow all over the floor!
The jack in the front left has grown almost 2 feet since I left and has forced the light pretty much up to the max height I have available. It is much bigger than the other three and is crowding into their space.
The front right plant is pretty sick, it was the farthest ahead in terms of flower when I left, and was completely changing in physiology. It started forming only 3 blade fans which were much thinner than it previous leaves, and the flowers were much further ahead than the others. It hasn't grown much at all since I left and it now has what I am thinking is a pretty serious calcium def. Many of the top leaves are covered in rusty coloured spots, filling in between the veins on the fans. What do you guys think is the problem with her?
She is definately pretty stressed and I am a little worried she'll hermie. I've seen a few things on her that look like might be nuts, but there are some similar looking ones that have two hairs coming out of them so maybe they are just swelling calyxs.
The two in the back look healthy, but still a fair bit smaller than the front left one. I did a fair bit more defoiliation to try to get some more airflow around the tent and to help the smaller plants get some more light. I cleaned up the small wilting shoots around the bottom that had re-grown but werent getting enough light as well. Going to do a water change tommorrow, the EC has been getting pretty high and think that is what is causing the front right plant to get locked out of calcium (if that is what is going on there). Ph has been pretty stable at around 5.9 for the whole time I was away.
I think you need to do a remedial defoliating. That is my considered opinion, it's what I'd do if I were in charge of it from this point based on my experience. I say 'remedial defoliating' because if she had been in rude health then I may or may not have recommended defoliating as a strategy but probably not because it's just a strategy and I think it's best if someone has already thought about it.
However this is more because it needs some remedial treatment due to some misfortune. I've seen ten times worse turn into a 1lb bud beast. I would suggest removing all damaged leaves, and then deciding if you want to do some extra defoliation while you're at it. I'm just giving you options. Work out a plan and follow it through.
I'll also add, that (this is my personal belief based on experience, it may or may not be controversial) I am a bit leery of falling into the trap of jumping to some nutrient deficiency. especially with a DWC. The whole point of hydro *for me* is that I can keep the roots in top condition with lots of space to move and grow into air and super controlled environment. This is because the first thing I discovered about dope is that if you can get the roots to look magnificent, everything else flows from that. DWC is more prone to root problems compared to other types of hydro or shallow water culture. Of course if everything is super tight then the roots will be good. Keep on with the hydro though. Use this grow as a learning curve and try a different type of hydro, like maybe one of my shallow water culture designs, the first one worked well, but I tried a different one because I wanted to move the reservoir from under the plan to the side to serve two plants. So I took the opportunity to try starting in a big pebble pot just to see. I'll reëvaluate again when the grow is finished.
I've still never built my ideal system but I'm working up to it. However the straight out of a tiny pot then into the deep water, is the one method I have no desire to try. I feel I'm suffocating just looking at it. But I've seen it work really well too, so it's not that it won't work it's just a lot more sensitive and there's more to go wrong.
However this is more because it needs some remedial treatment due to some misfortune. I've seen ten times worse turn into a 1lb bud beast. I would suggest removing all damaged leaves, and then deciding if you want to do some extra defoliation while you're at it. I'm just giving you options. Work out a plan and follow it through.
I'll also add, that (this is my personal belief based on experience, it may or may not be controversial) I am a bit leery of falling into the trap of jumping to some nutrient deficiency. especially with a DWC. The whole point of hydro *for me* is that I can keep the roots in top condition with lots of space to move and grow into air and super controlled environment. This is because the first thing I discovered about dope is that if you can get the roots to look magnificent, everything else flows from that. DWC is more prone to root problems compared to other types of hydro or shallow water culture. Of course if everything is super tight then the roots will be good. Keep on with the hydro though. Use this grow as a learning curve and try a different type of hydro, like maybe one of my shallow water culture designs, the first one worked well, but I tried a different one because I wanted to move the reservoir from under the plan to the side to serve two plants. So I took the opportunity to try starting in a big pebble pot just to see. I'll reëvaluate again when the grow is finished.
I've still never built my ideal system but I'm working up to it. However the straight out of a tiny pot then into the deep water, is the one method I have no desire to try. I feel I'm suffocating just looking at it. But I've seen it work really well too, so it's not that it won't work it's just a lot more sensitive and there's more to go wrong.
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Thanks for the advice!
I was a little leary of defoliating the sick one as it is already weak, Most of what I did was trim up the huge one to get some more light to the smaller ones.
As per your suggestion I took off some of the effected leaves, if she tolerates it ok i will continue to trim off the rest, I'd say at least 50% of her leaves are showing spots.
The roots were one of the first things I checked, they look great, nice and white and forming into a bucket shaped block. I am thinking calcium deficiency due to the rusty spots on mostly the upper leaves consistant with an imobile nutrient issue, no sign of clorosis, pests or root issues. I don't think there is a lack of calcium available, more likely an abundance of phosporus interefereing with the calcium uptake. The EC did get pretty high, 1300ppm (.5) by the time I got back as I had my wife just top up from the nutrient res instead of measuring and trying to hold a certain value like I had origionally planned. The rest of the plants seemed to tolerate the higher levels, and that probably had something to do with the big one growing so much.
I changed the water out today and mixed a much lighter concentration this time, I had underestimated the amount they were going to drink last time.
I was a little leary of defoliating the sick one as it is already weak, Most of what I did was trim up the huge one to get some more light to the smaller ones.
As per your suggestion I took off some of the effected leaves, if she tolerates it ok i will continue to trim off the rest, I'd say at least 50% of her leaves are showing spots.
The roots were one of the first things I checked, they look great, nice and white and forming into a bucket shaped block. I am thinking calcium deficiency due to the rusty spots on mostly the upper leaves consistant with an imobile nutrient issue, no sign of clorosis, pests or root issues. I don't think there is a lack of calcium available, more likely an abundance of phosporus interefereing with the calcium uptake. The EC did get pretty high, 1300ppm (.5) by the time I got back as I had my wife just top up from the nutrient res instead of measuring and trying to hold a certain value like I had origionally planned. The rest of the plants seemed to tolerate the higher levels, and that probably had something to do with the big one growing so much.
I changed the water out today and mixed a much lighter concentration this time, I had underestimated the amount they were going to drink last time.
Under normal circumstances defoliation is only recommended for plants in peak condition, especially roots. Doing a remedial defoliation on sick leaves is not to my knowledge some normal recommended thing but I have found it useful. It also allows you to more easier see if the problem is improving or not. You never really need to go over 800 to 1000 ppm tops and it's alway safer to stay in that area.
I bumped into a local rep for a new very technical and complex line of nutes, I was looking through their catalog and they give some very technical information which I have yet to fully process but you may find it interesting. The tech stuff starts on p. 40
https://issuu.com/aptusbible/docs/aptus-bible/40
I bumped into a local rep for a new very technical and complex line of nutes, I was looking through their catalog and they give some very technical information which I have yet to fully process but you may find it interesting. The tech stuff starts on p. 40
https://issuu.com/aptusbible/docs/aptus-bible/40
It's been a while since I did an update here, spent some time posting in the infirmary looking for some advice on the sick plant in the front right. I think that all came down to a problem with the bottle of AN Micro I had just started before I left. Something had gone bad with that bottle, the colour was way darker and full of precipitate. Got a new bottle and things improved although the one plant was permanently stunded and hasn't grown at all since.
About a week after I got back from Texas I had to go back there again to finish up that job. Got stuck there for almost two weeks this time!
Fortunately my garden faired much better this time around with new nutrients and a bit better control over the EC.
The giant plant in the front left continued to grow, mostly outward and luckily not too much vertically. It has pushed into the space of all the other plants and is trying hard to take the enitre tent over. It's stacking buds nicely though and I think I will let it take as much room as it wants.
It still needs a fair bit of time I think, they are already on day 97 from germ. And it looks like they will go maybe 120 before their ready. Much longer than I hoped but if the yield is good I guess its worth the wait.
About a week after I got back from Texas I had to go back there again to finish up that job. Got stuck there for almost two weeks this time!
Fortunately my garden faired much better this time around with new nutrients and a bit better control over the EC.
The giant plant in the front left continued to grow, mostly outward and luckily not too much vertically. It has pushed into the space of all the other plants and is trying hard to take the enitre tent over. It's stacking buds nicely though and I think I will let it take as much room as it wants.
It still needs a fair bit of time I think, they are already on day 97 from germ. And it looks like they will go maybe 120 before their ready. Much longer than I hoped but if the yield is good I guess its worth the wait.
Getting close to harvest time I think! The buds have been bulking up and the trichomes are starting to cloud up. They are all in different stages though; looks like I am not going to be able to dry in my tent as I was hoping to do.
The stunted one in the front right is pretty much ready to harvest, although quite disappointing in yield, it is by far the best smelling of the bunch. I hope the others get these terps as the mature too. It already has quite a few amber trichs and I should be flushing it now but they are all in a recirculation system.
The giant in the front left I figure I can keep it feeding for another week and then flush, it is a monster and is going to yield pretty well.
The one in the back left is the furthest behind and although I can barely see it it is trying to catch its big sister. I dug into the back the other day and found a cola that is easily the biggest in the tent hidden in the back. It has so many fans growing out of it I didn't even realise it was a cola until I put my hands around it. Must be 5" dia at the base. This plant still needs a few weeks as its pistles have barely started to orange. They are all 107 days since germ.
I might have to try pluging up the pipes to close off buckets individually so I can flush them one at a time. I was thinking of maybe using cork plugs but if the feed line pops out and the return is blocked it will overflow the bucket. Not sure if I have enough threads left inside the buckets after the lock ring to screw a cap or something onto. Anyone got any ideas?
The piping is rigid pvc, 1/2" for the feed at the bottom and 3/4" on the return at the top. Since the piping is rigid I cant move the buckets. I could put the plant into a new single bucket but i would have to sit the new bucket on top of the old one as there is no room in the bottom of the tent. That would work for the stunted one, but I dont have the height to do that with the bigger plants. Hmm...
The stunted one in the front right is pretty much ready to harvest, although quite disappointing in yield, it is by far the best smelling of the bunch. I hope the others get these terps as the mature too. It already has quite a few amber trichs and I should be flushing it now but they are all in a recirculation system.
The giant in the front left I figure I can keep it feeding for another week and then flush, it is a monster and is going to yield pretty well.
The one in the back left is the furthest behind and although I can barely see it it is trying to catch its big sister. I dug into the back the other day and found a cola that is easily the biggest in the tent hidden in the back. It has so many fans growing out of it I didn't even realise it was a cola until I put my hands around it. Must be 5" dia at the base. This plant still needs a few weeks as its pistles have barely started to orange. They are all 107 days since germ.
I might have to try pluging up the pipes to close off buckets individually so I can flush them one at a time. I was thinking of maybe using cork plugs but if the feed line pops out and the return is blocked it will overflow the bucket. Not sure if I have enough threads left inside the buckets after the lock ring to screw a cap or something onto. Anyone got any ideas?
The piping is rigid pvc, 1/2" for the feed at the bottom and 3/4" on the return at the top. Since the piping is rigid I cant move the buckets. I could put the plant into a new single bucket but i would have to sit the new bucket on top of the old one as there is no room in the bottom of the tent. That would work for the stunted one, but I dont have the height to do that with the bigger plants. Hmm...
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I managed to wedge a bucket in beside the one I want to transfer, and bend the lines enough to get the plant into its solo bucket. Plan with the scrog screen had just enough room to last for the cleansing portion.
Then, I kept researching about flushing, did my own experiments, and although I'm still very nervous because of popular opinion and years of doing otherwise, will not be flushing anymore. I'm getting my nutrients dialed in so perpetual is easier with no cleansing the plants at the end. Pop22 has a great thread on here, I won't make ya read it but there's good stuff in the "myth" subsection of the forum. It's making my life a lot easier.
But I know it's a hot topic and controversial. For now can you wedge a bucket in between what's in there?
I might be able to wedge one bucket in the front but it would be right up against the edge of the tent, its only a 3.5'x3.5' tent and has 4 5 gal buckets in it already. I could try to sit the new bucket into the old bucket but i would still need to plug up the pipes I think or water might push up between the buckets.
No flush would simplify that, but whith using only chem nutes I think it kinda has to flush to burn clean no? I have been thinking of maybe trying to cut the plant at the stem and then sit it in water to flush, that way theres no ozmosis, like how if you put cut flowers in food colouring the flowers draw the colour up into the petals
No flush would simplify that, but whith using only chem nutes I think it kinda has to flush to burn clean no? I have been thinking of maybe trying to cut the plant at the stem and then sit it in water to flush, that way theres no ozmosis, like how if you put cut flowers in food colouring the flowers draw the colour up into the petals
