Issue rapidly appearing during photo flower

[Cannaficionado]

No the schedule I use is this one. But I dont use the foliar spray or the dry ferts at the bottom and I dont have the fish fert one. Figured I didnt need it.View attachment 1556945
And actually the ph values are wider on this one 5.6-6.8.

I havent used an ec meter as I use distilled water only, do you think I should still?

Also sorry, I didnt add any cal mag but the one time, and I cut the dose in half for autos but leave it full for photos, only feeding once a week

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Ok I think I know where part of my problem is. Ive been ph'ing my feeds to 6.2 since the start of flower, going towards the lower end of what fox farm said in their instructions. Calling for a ph of 5.7-6.7. As I thought a slightly lower ph during flower was better.

I try to follow the guidelines for what Im using but when things go haywire its hard to figure out what exactly I did wrong as the symptoms seem to appear slightly differently each time I see them so far, or progress differently. I also have a tendency to overthink stuff which almost always makes me second guess everything I do.

I told you it is not a PH problem why do you go back to that? Are you doing something you don't want to talk about?

No the schedule I use is this one. But I dont use the foliar spray or the dry ferts at the bottom and I dont have the fish fert one. Figured I didnt need it.View attachment 1556945
And actually the ph values are wider on this one 5.6-6.8.

I havent used an ec meter as I use distilled water only, do you think I should still?

That schedule is still way to hot for Autos. If you are not measuring the EC of your nutrients you have no idea what you are actually feeding the plants. EC is measured AFTER you mix in ALL of the fertilizer. I never feed autos over 700 on the 500 (Hanna) scale.

Also sorry, I didnt add any cal mag but the one time, and I cut the dose in half for autos but leave it full for photos, only feeding once a week

You need to study my thread or other sources to get a grip on balance nutrients. You are using Distilled water and not adding Cal-mag based on the above schedule. This is probably not a good idea not only are you feeding too much N which will lock out Ca but you may or may not have enough to begin with. Your balance is all out whack.

What soil are you in?

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Cannaficionado post in here.

 

[Cannaficionado]

@Cannaficionado post in here.

Yeah sorry I thought I went back here after you said that. My bad. But yes the schedule I showed is the one I have been following. No calmag except the one time about a week ago.

No ec meter used. I was under the impression it was only needed if you were using ro or tap water sources. Or am I understanding that wrong?

Also I updated my last post. Originally I had an older version of fox farms feeding schedule that had a foliar spray. Didnt ever use it so I didnt even notice it was removed. So I use everything in green and orange, but I dont have wholly mackerel. Everything else I use according to the schedule, half doses for autos.

Also Idk if I explained my lighting situation but about 2 weeks ago I lowerd my light to give my auto a better dli, it was barely at 30dli so I bumped it up to full power and put it at a height that was keeping me around 40 for a 12 hour cycle. So I was wondering if that increase in intensity all of a sudden could have worsened the state of everything.

Sorry I wanted to go over that again because I felt like I failed at explaining it before. Just a question so I know if stuff like that can make it worse in the future.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

EC meters measure the total salts in the mix and has little or nothing to do with the source of the water other than to include it in the total. I am not going to respond again until you go study this tutorial. I don't mean just read - study it!

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

You need to get a much better understanding of what you are doing and we need to work out a plan to get you across the finish line with something to smoke.

What soil are you in?

Another thing you should grow Autos or Photos growing both at the same time will have too many contradictions They are very different plants.

 

[Cannaficionado]

EC meters measure the total salts in the mix and has little or nothing to do with the source of the water other than to include it in the total. I am not going to respond again until you go study this tutorial. I don't mean just read - study it!

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

You need to get a much better understanding of what you are doing and we need to work out a plan to get you across the finish line with something to smoke.

What soil are you in?

Another thing you should grow Autos or Photos growing both at the same time will have too many contradictions They are very different plants.

Im am in a blend of fox farm happy frog and ocean forest. The store didnt have enough happy frog for me to just use that so I mixed the remainder of the ocean forest I had left from my first attempt. Its about a 4:1 mix. I just didnt wanna go straight OF again. It gave me problems with my first try here.

And I understand. I just wanted to point out something I noticed right away. I will read it thoroughly in the morning after work.

Im sorry if I made this difficult for you. Im just trying to get an understanding of what people are looking for and at, and why they lean certain ways. I guess its just making it confusing for everyone else.

 

[Cannaficionado]

@Mañ'O'Green

I really read and reread until I could understand most of what was in your nutrient thread. I do have a couple questions to clarify some things.

Since I am growing in a peat based soil, in what regards should I treat it? I cant really find a breakdown on contents anywhere but should I treat it more like soil or more like peat?

I was already planning on adjusting feed amounts and scheduling on my next grow but with your article Im just not sure if I should water to runoff or not.

Also I have been researching how to do ec testing and tds testing, but with a nutrient solution that has a little bit of everything in Im struggling to understand how I know my nutrient mix by testing the electro-conductivity of the solution. I understand the way its laid out in the thread transferring that info to my feed line is making my head spin.

Im really trying to get a grasp on this but I might need some guidance as I believe I am overthinking some of this stuff, or just overlooking the obvious.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Mañ'O'Green

I really read and reread until I could understand most of what was in your nutrient thread. I do have a couple questions to clarify some things.

Since I am growing in a peat based soil, in what regards should I treat it? I cant really find a breakdown on contents anywhere but should I treat it more like soil or more like peat?

I was already planning on adjusting feed amounts and scheduling on my next grow but with your article Im just not sure if I should water to runoff or not.

Also I have been researching how to do ec testing and tds testing, but with a nutrient solution that has a little bit of everything in Im struggling to understand how I know my nutrient mix by testing the electro-conductivity of the solution. I understand the way its laid out in the thread transferring that info to my feed line is making my head spin.

Im really trying to get a grasp on this but I might need some guidance as I believe I am overthinking some of this stuff, or just overlooking the obvious.

Yes in the beginning that article is information overload but it has you thinking "how do I apply this to my grow method". I will gladly help you with any question anytime. I am not the last word on anything. I have done a lot of study and I change my mind often as I discover new science and products. The underlying chemistry is solid. The way we apply it is always changing.

If the base of your media is peat. You treat it as peat. That means that it will hold on to nutrients better than coco but not as strongly as soil. You do want to water to run-off a little 5% to 10%. PH your inputs to 6.3 PH.

When you use the EC meter you are measuring the TOTAL salts in the mix. Maintaining a balance between the elements is a lot more tricky. This is the reason I always tell peeps to use a single vendor line and use their chart. They spend millions of dollars developing a line of products to work together in "Balance". A huge caveat to that is that most nutrient lines nutrient schedule is based on Photoperiod plants. Photos are so different in their nutrient needs as to be a different plant altogether. Ruderalis the original autoflowering plant developed over the eons in colder shorter days and very different soil composition than the Indica and Sativa plants. So a general rule of thumb (Bro Science) is to use about 65% of a chart developed for Photos. Some of the better nutrient companies are beginning to post Auto Flowering charts.

In peat you want to feed (fertigate) every 3rd or 4th time you need to water.

What you need to learn about watering will come with practice. Here are the basic rules: Never let the peat dry out. Peat can become hydrophobic if allowed to dry. This means it repels water. This in turn will create dry pockets in the soil and the roots and microbes will die there. If your peat has accidentally dried out use a surfactant to help re-wet it. I like yucca powder. Don't let peat remain soggy by watering too much too often. Root rot, damping off, molds, fungus gnats and other problems start in soggy soil. When you do water water the entire pot. How to learn when to water starts before you plant the seed. Fill your container with fresh peat mix and weigh it (heft it) this is the lightest weight and consider it a dry pot. Now slowly water until the peat mix will no longer absorb the water and run-off begins; weigh the pot (heft it) this is the maximum water, the wettest the pot can get. The difference between wettest and driest is the maximum water weight, for ease of explanation lets just say the water weighs 20 pounds. When the pot loses 10 pounds (half of the water weight) it is time to water again. Slowly wet ALL of the peat mix until run-off begins. There is an art to watering.

Hang in there all of this stuff will become easy and just like riding a bike you may have some skint knees before you get it.

 

[Cannaficionado]

Yes in the beginning that article is information overload but it has you thinking "how do I apply this to my grow method". I will gladly help you with any question anytime. I am not the last word on anything. I have done a lot of study and I change my mind often as I discover new science and products. The underlying chemistry is solid. The way we apply it is always changing.

If the base of your media is peat. You treat it as peat. That means that it will hold on to nutrients better than coco but not as strongly as soil. You do want to water to run-off a little 5% to 10%. PH your inputs to 6.3 PH.

When you use the EC meter you are measuring the TOTAL salts in the mix. Maintaining a balance between the elements is a lot more tricky. This is the reason I always tell peeps to use a single vendor line and use their chart. They spend millions of dollars developing a line of products to work together in "Balance". A huge caveat to that is that most nutrient lines nutrient schedule is based on Photoperiod plants. Photos are so different in their nutrient needs as to be a different plant altogether. Ruderalis the original autoflowering plant developed over the eons in colder shorter days and very different soil composition than the Indica and Sativa plants. So a general rule of thumb (Bro Science) is to use about 65% of a chart developed for Photos. Some of the better nutrient companies are beginning to post Auto Flowering charts.

In peat you want to feed (fertigate) every 3rd or 4th time you need to water.

What you need to learn about watering will come with practice. Here are the basic rules: Never let the peat dry out. Peat can become hydrophobic if allowed to dry. This means it repels water. This in turn will create dry pockets in the soil and the roots and microbes will die there. If your peat has accidentally dried out use a surfactant to help re-wet it. I like yucca powder. Don't let peat remain soggy by watering too much too often. Root rot, damping off, molds, fungus gnats and other problems start in soggy soil. When you do water water the entire pot. How to learn when to water starts before you plant the seed. Fill your container with fresh peat mix and weigh it (heft it) this is the lightest weight and consider it a dry pot. Now slowly water until the peat mix will no longer absorb the water and run-off begins; weigh the pot (heft it) this is the maximum water, the wettest the pot can get. The difference between wettest and driest is the maximum water weight, for ease of explanation lets just say the water weighs 20 pounds. When the pot loses 10 pounds (half of the water weight) it is time to water again. Slowly wet ALL of the peat mix until run-off begins. There is an art to watering.

Hang in there all of this stuff will become easy and just like riding a bike you may have some skint knees before you get it.

Ok. In the beginning I wasnt worrying about watering to runoff so I wonder if I developed hydrophobic pockets in the bottom of the pot right from the start.

In the seedling stage would you still reccomend watering to run off to avoid developing hydrophic pockets? I didnt do that in the start of this run because I was afraid of drowning them

I also made the switch to spring water, after you said distilled wasnt the best choice I tried finding out why and Im guessing because its completely void of anything. My main question with the nutrients I guess comes with mixing though. Since Im using the fox farm line, should I cut everything back in equal proportion and take a reading? Then if its low and more in equal amounts till it gets to the right range? I dont have an ec meter, just tds, I thought I bought it but I never did. Its on my list though for the next grow.