Is there such a thing as a bullet proof first grow?

[bobthedog]

In reality, no, you can mess anything up, but bear with me a moment.

Looking at all the threads in this and the infirmary sub forums, it strikes me that hydroponic growing is quite challenging for the first time grower and sorting out what the issue is can be complicated.

I'm biased because of my background growing in dirt, but it seems to me that growing in a medium that already has a full complements of nutrients is much simpler for the first grow.

I see growing in soil as having three major advantages:
1. all the nutrients are already there (or mostly)
2. a properly put together soil mix is not that hard to do
3. a properly put together soil mix will buffer a lot of things including available nutrients and water quality.

On top of that, when things go sideways, they do that a lot more slowly and it is easier to correct course.

The big advantage I see it that, if the only thing you need to do is water, you can concentrate on getting that right and not have to worry about all the other niggly details.

Once you nail watering, you can always move on and try a more complicated grow methods to maximize harvest.

As an example, my first grow was store bought mix and a balanced slow release organic fertilizer I got at a local nursery. Mix the recommended amount in before planting and do a top dress at 5 weeks. That's it. That took me all the way to harvest. Granted in was not much of a harvest, between 20 and 30 grams for each plant, but still, I got a harvest.

On buffering. My water is hard. Very, very hard: 420ppm - 24 grains on a good day, 485ppm - 28 grains on a not so good day. You can't do hydroponics in this water. I did a dead simple soil grow. No ph or tds/ec meter required. Also cheap as dirt .

Why mess with complicated when you can do dead simple the first time around? I'm curious to hear the thoughts of the more experienced on this.

 

[Proph]

Hahaa.. Glad you stated your bias, lol. In my opinion, I can't tell someone else what's complicated and what's easy. That's for them to decide. I grow organic because that's what fits my personality and lifestyle. I look to, and believe in natural approaches. But I have friends with degrees in bio and chem that can't grasp the art of soil growing. They'd rather feed the plant themselves and give it everything it needs. They arent the sit back and watch the plant grow type of people.. They always need to be fiddling with something.. Hydro scratches that itch for them. To them, it's easier to be in total control of the situation and control all aspects, rather than just leaving it up to the soil. It's total personal preference. Most people pick their growing style based on the most popular style they find online (like coco for example).. When they should be making that decision based more so on their learning style and personality. There really isn't a middle ground.. Either you feed the plant everything it needs and take full responsibility for its success, or you leave it up to the soil and grow with water only or something similar. I think people should choose the grow style that matches their lifestyle.

 

[JSH1973]

I'm not experienced as I'm less than a week in to my very first grow but I'm growing in Coco/Perlite and I picked it over soil because there seemed to be less trouble with fungus and pests when you live in a humid climate, I could be wrong but that was the impression I got from a lot of reading, it's definitely a more expensive way to get started I have learned and it definitely is a bit of a challenge but I do have a tendency to jump in deep and sometimes with both feet tied

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I agree with @Proph

I prefer complicated things as I believe I get wider amount of knowledge having a higher degree of control than soil growers.

I'll grow my vegetables in soil and hydro but I believe I can push quality, BRIX, higher with hydro but I'm not selling my vegetables.

Doesn't really matter how you grow so long as you have the skills and understanding to do it successfully though having an adequate budget helps. I learn a lot from so many different methods and I've settled on what meets my priorities and situation.

I prioritize water conservation, strong growth, and cost. My f&d setups in Growpito use very little water/fertilizer that offsets my initial ROI. It's perpetual use material and grows well. Yes it's hydro but managing reservoirs and mixing fertilizer once a month isn't difficult.

Anyways, it's as easy as you make it. I don't think soil is hard but I don't get the same type of data that offers me enough to control to adjust on the fly. Not as easy but the cons of soil are outweighed by the benefits of hydro for my specific situation and capabilities.

Before I got RO I was using tap with 450-500ppm and 170 grain. Definitely adds a barrier to entry level growing but @THC Farms did a 2lb plant his very first time in DWC. Different strokes

 

[bobthedog]

Yeah, I knew I was the smartest guy in the room until I got my second tech job and worked with some people that were "holly batshit batman!" smarter than me. We all carry bias.

Let me be clear thought. This is not about best or what suits your style long term, its about learning effectively from your first grow and not getting overwhelmed. To me, the very first thing you need to do is learn how to manage water/watering and a close second would be learning how to read your plants. The simpler the grow method, the more time a person has to dedicate to learning those two things.

There is lots of time to get as complicated as you want once you get your feet firmly planted and get a grow or two under your belt.

@JSH1973 I'm not sure what pests or infections you would get from sterilized soil mix that you would not also be susceptible to in hydro. I'm not talking about living soil or an outdoor grow in real dirt. Those are other cans of worms.

FWIW, I love complicated as well, that's why I got into tech, but... I keep learning over and over sometimes simple is the most effective, even if it is not the best long term. I think that applies to learning to grow for those who have never grown anything before.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Who is to say what is the most effective way to learn? It's all subjective.

I'll reiterate that @THC Farms did amazingly well his very first grow in a 'complicated' system.

I don't really care how anyone grows but they should educate themselves on that specific method. It's an investment so why invest in something you don't or can't or are unwilling to understand.

You have a set of properties for what you believe is integral to a beginner in learning but my list would be different.

Managing irrigation is just one piece of the puzzle. Lights, water, ventilation, temperature, humidity, medium, nutrition all should be understood because you buy all of this from the onset. Not knowing how to use or why you do or don't have certain equipment/tools can limit a successful grow.

I'm not going to discourage someone from picking something they like because it appears to be complicated. If they want to grow they should take the time to learn what they can, doesn't matter if it's soil, Coco, Rockwool, DWC, etc

 

[karlkutta]

Good points here.

I agree that it comes down to individual preference but I do feel that dirt grow is more straight forward, but it's also easy to screw up the dirt.

 

[NucksNugs]

In reality, no, you can mess anything up, but bear with me a moment.

Looking at all the threads in this and the infirmary sub forums, it strikes me that hydroponic growing is quite challenging for the first time grower and sorting out what the issue is can be complicated.

I'm biased because of my background growing in dirt, but it seems to me that growing in a medium that already has a full complements of nutrients is much simpler for the first grow.

I see growing in soil as having three major advantages:
1. all the nutrients are already there (or mostly)
2. a properly put together soil mix is not that hard to do
3. a properly put together soil mix will buffer a lot of things including available nutrients and water quality.

On top of that, when things go sideways, they do that a lot more slowly and it is easier to correct course.

The big advantage I see it that, if the only thing you need to do is water, you can concentrate on getting that right and not have to worry about all the other niggly details.

Once you nail watering, you can always move on and try a more complicated grow methods to maximize harvest.

As an example, my first grow was store bought mix and a balanced slow release organic fertilizer I got at a local nursery. Mix the recommended amount in before planting and do a top dress at 5 weeks. That's it. That took me all the way to harvest. Granted in was not much of a harvest, between 20 and 30 grams for each plant, but still, I got a harvest.

On buffering. My water is hard. Very, very hard: 420ppm - 24 grains on a good day, 485ppm - 28 grains on a not so good day. You can't do hydroponics in this water. I did a dead simple soil grow. No ph or tds/ec meter required. Also cheap as dirt .

Why mess with complicated when you can do dead simple the first time around? I'm curious to hear the thoughts of the more experienced on this.

 

[bobthedog]

Who is to say what is the most effective way to learn? It's all subjective.

I will agree that there are different learning styles and they are quite well documented. That's not subjective though.

I'll reiterate that @THC Farms did amazingly well his very first grow in a 'complicated' system.

I'm not saying that new growers can't succeed with a more complicated system. I will suggest it is a steeper learning curve.

You have a set of properties for what you believe is integral to a beginner in learning but my list would be different.

Integral definition: necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.

Nope. I'm not proposing that at all. What I am suggesting it that removing some of the steps makes the process simpler, therefore more bullet proof for a first time grower with no previous grow experience of any type.

Simplify definition: make (something) simpler or easier to do or understand.

Fewer variables to manage = fewer things you can get wrong and spend time diagnosing. To me, that fits the definition of simplify quite well.

Managing irrigation is just one piece of the puzzle. Lights, water, ventilation, temperature, humidity, medium, nutrition all should be understood because you buy all of this from the onset. Not knowing how to use or why you do or don't have certain equipment/tools can limit a successful grow.

I'm not saying water is the only thing that is importance, just that its importance is a little higher. From what I have read here, it also seems to be something new growers get wrong more often. Man-O-Green seems to post his watering basics in the new grower and infirmary sub-forums a lot. I'm sure there is a reason for that.

I'm also not suggesting people not learn and understand their equipment. I'm just suggesting to keep equipment and methods to a minimum to get the basics of growing down. For instance, with a properly constructed soil, you don't need to worry about either pH or ec. There is no need for meters and understanding the affects of either on a grow. The soil takes care of that for you. That is why I was able to do a simple soil grow with water unfit for hydroponics.

Now, I was able to grow on my balcony, so I could simplify one step further. The sun turns on every morning and off every night. It never burns out or fails either. One more step eliminated. Optimal? Nope. Simple? Definitely.

I'm not trying to discourage people from using other methods, just suggesting an easier or simpler way to start. Its like learning to swim. No half sane swimming instructor would give their kids a bunch of youtube videos and forum posts and then toss them in the deep end and tell them to do the front crawl. They always start in the shallow end with the basics.

By the way, I consider being able to use your fingers to determine the moisture of your pots to be one of the fundamentals. We were given a very sensitive instrument that does not require batteries or calibration and never fails. Learn how to use it and it will serve you well for the rest of your growing years.

I'm not going to discourage someone from picking something they like because it appears to be complicated. If they want to grow they should take the time to learn what they can, doesn't matter if it's soil, Coco, Rockwool, DWC, etc

Me either. Since jumping into the deep end won't drown you, I'll even give you a big hug first.
But, if you want results the first time around, I am going to suggest what I think is the simplest method.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I will agree that there are different learning styles and they are quite well documented. That's not subjective though.

I'm not saying that new growers can't succeed with a more complicated system. I will suggest it is a steeper learning curve.


Integral definition: necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.

Nope. I'm not proposing that at all. What I am suggesting it that removing some of the steps makes the process simpler, therefore more bullet proof for a first time grower with no previous grow experience of any type.

Simplify definition: make (something) simpler or easier to do or understand.

Fewer variables to manage = fewer things you can get wrong and spend time diagnosing. To me, that fits the definition of simplify quite well.


I'm not saying water is the only thing that is importance, just that its importance is a little higher. From what I have read here, it also seems to be something new growers get wrong more often. Man-O-Green seems to post his watering basics in the new grower and infirmary sub-forums a lot. I'm sure there is a reason for that.

I'm also not suggesting people not learn and understand their equipment. I'm just suggesting to keep equipment and methods to a minimum to get the basics of growing down. For instance, with a properly constructed soil, you don't need to worry about either pH or ec. There is no need for meters and understanding the affects of either on a grow. The soil takes care of that for you. That is why I was able to do a simple soil grow with water unfit for hydroponics.

Now, I was able to grow on my balcony, so I could simplify one step further. The sun turns on every morning and off every night. It never burns out or fails either. One more step eliminated. Optimal? Nope. Simple? Definitely.

I'm not trying to discourage people from using other methods, just suggesting an easier or simpler way to start. Its like learning to swim. No half sane swimming instructor would give their kids a bunch of youtube videos and forum posts and then toss them in the deep end and tell them to do the front crawl. They always start in the shallow end with the basics.

By the way, I consider being able to use your fingers to determine the moisture of your pots to be one of the fundamentals. We were given a very sensitive instrument that does not require batteries or calibration and never fails. Learn how to use it and it will serve you well for the rest of your growing years.

Me either. Since jumping into the deep end won't drown you, I'll even give you a big hug first.
But, if you want results the first time around, I am going to suggest what I think is the simplest method.

What you consider simple may be boring and leave another disengaged or what you consider simple may be trash to someone else.

I can't say what would be 'simple' for a beginner because people have individually unique backgrounds and different ways of learning.