Grove Bag Alternative

[Drownomatic]

My best long term storage is 2qt Ball jars backfilled with Bloxygen(argon)

 

[JP1]

I've been buying grove bags for years and they're always changing them. The ones from a couple years ago definitely dried out without heat sealing. The bags from the last couple years seem much better. The newest ones even have longer gaps at the top so you can get a couple seals in before hitting the zipper. So they seem to be constantly improving them. I like em and will keep using them. My only problem is the shipping is outrageous for plastic bags

 

[WildBill]

I've been buying grove bags for years and they're always changing them. The ones from a couple years ago definitely dried out without heat sealing. The bags from the last couple years seem much better. The newest ones even have longer gaps at the top so you can get a couple seals in before hitting the zipper. So they seem to be constantly improving them. I like em and will keep using them. My only problem is the shipping is outrageous for plastic bags

I agree for the most part. I do think those first ones were a bit sketchy in the zipper department. I know I had several failures and so did others. And yes, shipping is way too damn expensive for plastic bags.

I really don't see any drying out of buds. I do make sure that if I take any out, I make sure I get as much air out as possible before I seal it. I also keep those cheap little hydrometers in one, just to keep an eye on the humidity when I first put them in and just never take them out. They might lose a point or two over 6 or 7 months.

 

[Waira]

I've been buying grove bags for years and they're always changing them. The ones from a couple years ago definitely dried out without heat sealing. The bags from the last couple years seem much better. The newest ones even have longer gaps at the top so you can get a couple seals in before hitting the zipper. So they seem to be constantly improving them. I like em and will keep using them. My only problem is the shipping is outrageous for plastic bags

That's good to hear at least. Likely they've altered the layering of the bag material to improve it...
Heat sealing is the critical part for sure, as mentioned the zips are always the weak point in this regard. Feedback from the early days when they first came here did mention that even with heat sealing the bud did lose significant moisture....
Resealing was a sore point too, finally it seems enough complaints got though that they now have extended that top tab zone so you can get a couple seal rounds on them.

Since you've been using them for a while now, does it look like they upped the zip quality and robustness?

The shipping costs are inflated big time, just another way to bleed us out a bit more while not repelling people with the retail sticker shock price of the bags themselves

 

[WildBill]

That's good to hear at least. Likely they've altered the layering of the bag material to improve it...
Heat sealing is the critical part for sure, as mentioned the zips are always the weak point in this regard. Feedback from the early days when they first came here did mention that even with heat sealing the bud did lose significant moisture....
Resealing was a sore point too, finally it seems enough complaints got though that they now have extended that top tab zone so you can get a couple seal rounds on them.

Since you've been using them for a while now, does it look like they upped the zip quality and robustness?

The shipping costs are inflated big time, just another way to bleed us out a bit more while not repelling people with the retail sticker shock price of the bags themselves

Well, I haven't had a zipper failure since the first batch.

 

[JP1]

Zippers from 2 years ago vs zippers from last month. Big difference

 

[BII]

IME this has always been the weak point in any zip-type bag regardless of the bags material and construction... heavy duty ones do make a difference for sure, but still are anything but air tight. The material they are made of is different too of course. Some I found (along with some types of container seals, silicon especially) can actually absorb the damn terpenes and bleed them out ever so slowly, but noticeably.

Grove is just another clown show company looking to jack peep's for stupid sums of money for a product that simply isn't anything new or particularly effective... I've seen too many feedback reports about this now to think otherwise.... it seems to not be truly water vapor-proof; many complaints about overdrying over time...

If you really need truly air/stank-proof storage in a bag, the olde Seal-a-Meal bags are excellent! Costco now offers a much cheaper version of the same thing- ...They are multi-layered type construction
Mylar + aluminum material is also excellent, so called 3-5mil thickness is what you want...
...polypropylene bags (as opposed to polyethylene) seems to be very good as well, again the thickness 3-5 mil (not sure WTF they mean by that, it sure isn't millimeters!)... The caveat is the zip seal being the weak point if you chose this material for storage.
This type of poly is very common in food storage because of it's resistance to moisture/vapors, and is superior to polyethylene is chemical resistance (terpenes/organic solvents; some terps can actually start to erode cheap sandwich bags!)....

Like Seal-a-Meal, you can buy the mylar/metal stuff in rolls, but you still need a heat sealer... ditto for polyp'....

Mason jars, been using them for a while but they are bulky and IME, the band+lid combo isn't cutting it for sealing. remember, these are designed with vacuum sealing in mind for canning; as the goods in the jar cool, the air contracts and suck the lid down tight...
I have noticed stank leakage with the band+lid combo, confirmed by bagging the jars up and smell testing later -
The only thing that seems to work better (read not perfect) is using a lid + one of the good quality screw-on tops which will usually force enough pressure onto the lid to flatten it down enough for that seal material to lock down.

I've taken to storing extra in the fridge, which hogs space and why jars are out! I use the Costco seal bags mainly, just don't evacuate the bag to crushing the buds... gonna try tossing an Oxygen absorber into them this year...
Also thought of using small aluminum pans to put buds into before sealing, limiting that mashing further, and of course, Al is totally inert...


wise call mate! View attachment 1712871

That's the catch, and the skill/experience deal with final dry phase! I don't long term store for 6-8 weeks anyway, sometimes longer, as the magic of cure time transformation is a highly variable thing...
Always always cool and dark!

BOOST/Boveda, used both... they do absorb terpenes, nothing can stop that, but to what degree and level of detriment isn't so clear cut to me...
I don't use them much these days though anyway, better understanding and storage options have reduced the need for them....
Didn't I see a Boveda version made for cannabis specifically? Might be addressing this very issue?

I don't think it's all that appropriate to compare Grove bags with their presumed custom designed partial water vapor/rH diffusion to perfectly sealed containers composed of impermeable materials. This includes Seal-a-Meal and mylar-aluminum bags, polypropylene and other denser polymer bags, glass jars, etc. Grove bags are not designed for "truly air/stank-proof storage."

The bag do not do everything users want them to as ideally as desired, such as long-term storage without excess drying; and presumably some mono- and other lower m.w. terpenes are lost. But they do seem to basically work for many, including novices -- dry the herb to at or near target rH and use the bags as the curing container (then put them in a truly air-tight container), making sure to monitor the buds regularly. Much the same can be said about the Boost and other water vapor absorbents/releasers. Both of these methods have inherent limitations, but still are useful for what they can do. Most problems with these products seem to arise from longer- vs. short term usage.

 

[Olderfart]

I searched for "laminated nut bags" and looking quickly it appears that nut bags are air-tight, with most or all having an aluminum foil layer, with no mention of selective water vapor diffusion.

There could be bags used for fresh vegetables and other herbs made to control rH of their contents. There is likely more promise of a Grove alternative here vs. nut bags.

The commercial bags I refer to are presumable designed, just like Groves claim to be, to provide the needed storage conditions for the particular product being sold. Some designs have foil, which I assume to be intended to make them impermeable to both oxygen and moisture, some of them have no foil, which I assume intends a different storage environment, perhaps the ones claimed for Groves. My expectation here is that some clever or lucky person discovered when reusing the bags that weed would cure in them, and then arranged and marketed supply of the bags. What I find a little difficult to believe is that someone persuaded a bag manufacturer to produce a laminated bag specifically designed for the needs of curing cannabis - the market is after all rather tiny in comparison to the millions of the things used commercially for sale of other products. I believe, at least for now, that Groves are overpriced, relabeled, and well marketed bags from one of the manufacturers that provides bags made of identical material for the commercial handling and marketing of products like nuts and seeds. Custom labelling is one thing, custom manufacturing of specifically engineered laminate material for a miniscule market is another.

One amusing reason for my suspicion about the bags is that many years ago in one of my courses at university I completed an experiment meant to measure over time the reduction in oxygen inside a container containing, as I recall, a live grasshopper. Us students were left to our own devices as to what nature of container we should use for the experiment. I used a plastic bag. When my attempt at the experiment did not work as expected, the professor informed me that the bag material was permeable to oxygen, and I should have used a glass jar. I was left wondering how the hell was I supposed to know that, and why students were not instructed what container to use.

I emphasize here that my suspicion is just that, I have not tested the issue. However, nothing provided in the information on Groves convinces me that the bags are anything other than simply relabeled and hugely overpriced bags used widely in the retail marketing of food items like some nuts and seeds. I still use groves, but only for a few week cure after drying and before other storage or processing arrangements. One of these days, I will run a comparison of the groves with some of the retail bags I have around to see if the groves behave differently, at least with regard to water vapor. I have no way of measuring oxygen levels, so I can't test that. I may even try some cannabis in the non Grove bags. Maybe. If I get inspired. Although so far, it has not happened.

 

[Waira]

I don't think it's all that appropriate to compare Grove bags with their presumed custom designed partial water vapor/rH diffusion to perfectly sealed containers composed of impermeable materials. This includes Seal-a-Meal and mylar-aluminum bags, polypropylene and other denser polymer bags, glass jars, etc. Grove bags are not designed for "truly air/stank-proof storage."

It is if you're talking about long term storage stability in RH% and O2 levels, (and aroma lock-down),...particularly if the material will be stored in a fridge/freezer which are desiccating environments. That's where I was coming from....

he commercial bags I refer to are presumable designed, just like Groves claim to be, to provide the needed storage conditions for the particular product being sold. Some designs have foil, which I assume to be intended to make them impermeable to both oxygen and moisture, some of them have no foil, which I assume intends a different storage environment, perhaps the ones claimed for Groves. My expectation here is that some clever or lucky person discovered when reusing the bags that weed would cure in them, and then arranged and marketed supply of the bags. What I find a little difficult to believe is that someone persuaded a bag manufacturer to produce a laminated bag specifically designed for the needs of curing cannabis - the market is after all rather tiny in comparison to the millions of the things used commercially for sale of other products. I believe, at least for now, that Groves are overpriced, relabeled, and well marketed bags from one of the manufacturers that provides bags made of identical material for the commercial handling and marketing of products like nuts and seeds. Custom labelling is one thing, custom manufacturing of specifically engineered laminate material for a miniscule market is another.

Agreed! ...I suspect that they buy the actual bag material from a manufacturer that specializes in such things, then they take it from there...
All kinds of applications out there, and lots of material choices and features/characteristics in kind...

Cost rules though as we know, which is why the more complex construction of multi-layered bags like the Seal-a-Meal types are pretty spendy regardless... And not used commercially for things like snack foods, etc....
Other materials can often be beefed up or tweaked to achieve equivalent capacities at less cost, and small blame to them for that!

To their credit, Grove is fairly clear about the limitations and capacities of their bags. It's just great to see another brand get in on the game and undercut them- ...competition is nothing but healthy!
We all know that just about anything product-wise cannabis related automatically gets price-jacked, no matter how otherwise common and everyday mundane it is-

 

[JP1]

I opened up a heat sealed grove bag of ripple from a plant I finished last April yesterday. Filled a jar and put a hydrometer in it. 55%. So it lost 5-7% humidity in 18 months. Smells great. Actually smells entirely different then when I chopped that plant