New Grower Flushing Formula - Discussion.
- Thread starter Invincible
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I have used GHE and AN and Canna. AN told me specifically not to use the formula in the mid grow, only in the end.
GHE just states that they dont use enzymes and its a "different technology".
I will search a little for the info on AN, how they argumented about their formula, will update a little later, with quotes.
GHE just states that they dont use enzymes and its a "different technology".
I will search a little for the info on AN, how they argumented about their formula, will update a little later, with quotes.
I've asked bunny if He ummm / She (sorry bunny not sure hehe) would like their grow thread cleaned.
If Bunny does want it cleaned, i'll start a new thread called "Flushing Formulars" and move all the informationposts and opinions over there if that's cool with everyone??
If Bunny does want it cleaned, i'll start a new thread called "Flushing Formulars" and move all the informationposts and opinions over there if that's cool with everyone??
Ok, here we go, i will cite.
1. "There is a process called osmosis that will try to even out the concentration of nutrients inside and outside your plants."
2. "Final Phase is a nutrient additive that reduced and removes excess fertilizers in the root zone, preventing them from slowing growth"
3. "Final Phase works very quickly to break ionic bonds between nutrient residues. It does this using empty chelates, which are like tiny chemical magnets. Empty chelates have a stronger attraction with excess nutrient and build-up molecules than any other element present in the growing environment, and so they are very effective at un-sticking these excess molecules."
4. "Final Phase can be useful as mini-flush to get back to a neutral root zone for re-balancing pH"
5. "Final Phase is the only formula that is actually made for the plants you grow, Final Phase is also different in that it has a very broad range of free flowing chelates. Nobody else has these. There are many individual metals that needs to be pulled out of crops. Chelates come in different shapes and sizes and are attracted only to certain metals. Other flushing formulas dont have a broad enough range of chelates to remove all the substances present in your crops. Its like the difference between washing the entire car, or only one door."
6. "Final Phase removes excess materials better than any other flush producer or than using only pure water."
7. " There are two different times you may want to use Final Phase. The first is during mid-crop if you have reached toxic levels of build-up; and the second is pre-harvest, your standard flush"
8. Chelates are an arrangement of molecules that typically carry fertilizer molecules to the plant, but it they are empty (not already bonded to a specific fertilizer molecule), they act like a magnet to excess fertilizer molecules that are floating around."
Here you go, Advanced Nutrients Final Phase arguments, cited directly.
I`m cool @blue
1. "There is a process called osmosis that will try to even out the concentration of nutrients inside and outside your plants."
2. "Final Phase is a nutrient additive that reduced and removes excess fertilizers in the root zone, preventing them from slowing growth"
3. "Final Phase works very quickly to break ionic bonds between nutrient residues. It does this using empty chelates, which are like tiny chemical magnets. Empty chelates have a stronger attraction with excess nutrient and build-up molecules than any other element present in the growing environment, and so they are very effective at un-sticking these excess molecules."
4. "Final Phase can be useful as mini-flush to get back to a neutral root zone for re-balancing pH"
5. "Final Phase is the only formula that is actually made for the plants you grow, Final Phase is also different in that it has a very broad range of free flowing chelates. Nobody else has these. There are many individual metals that needs to be pulled out of crops. Chelates come in different shapes and sizes and are attracted only to certain metals. Other flushing formulas dont have a broad enough range of chelates to remove all the substances present in your crops. Its like the difference between washing the entire car, or only one door."
6. "Final Phase removes excess materials better than any other flush producer or than using only pure water."
7. " There are two different times you may want to use Final Phase. The first is during mid-crop if you have reached toxic levels of build-up; and the second is pre-harvest, your standard flush"
8. Chelates are an arrangement of molecules that typically carry fertilizer molecules to the plant, but it they are empty (not already bonded to a specific fertilizer molecule), they act like a magnet to excess fertilizer molecules that are floating around."
Here you go, Advanced Nutrients Final Phase arguments, cited directly.
I`m cool @blue
Nice info Forestly, I think it's to be expected that AN (or any nute company) would say their product is superior to the rest 
Maybe using a solution like final phase would reduce the amount of time needed to flush? For example with just plain water I like to flush/cleanse at the end for 7-14 days, if final phase or a similar product is more effective at removing those excess nutes maybe you could flush for just 5-7 days or something.
@blue I think it's worth setting up that thread anyway, we could open a poll to see what AFN's preferences are in regards to what they use to flush?
Poor bunny, he's gonna have so much to read through when he logs back in
Maybe using a solution like final phase would reduce the amount of time needed to flush? For example with just plain water I like to flush/cleanse at the end for 7-14 days, if final phase or a similar product is more effective at removing those excess nutes maybe you could flush for just 5-7 days or something.@blue I think it's worth setting up that thread anyway, we could open a poll to see what AFN's preferences are in regards to what they use to flush?
Poor bunny, he's gonna have so much to read through when he logs back in
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Guys, It's not IF these products work I'm questioning, but how they work in fact vs hype,... Blue's right, some clarity is needed in how we define cleanse and flush....a cleanse is just a period (week or so, depending on how heavily and what you fed-organic, synthetic), of no nutrient inputs of any kind prior to harvest, a week or so typically, to help clear out extra lingering nutrients and carb's,...doesn't include pouring 1-3 times the pot volume through the media, like in flushing...Flushing is a full-on rinsing process of whatever medium to remove excess salts, nute's, and/or to help correct off pH's... (it's not just for preharvest alone; some folks do a routine flush between grow and bloom feed regimes, or if feeding heavily with synthetic nute's, to keep salt build-up levels low).. They both achieve the same ends as far as purging the plant of internal excess stuff, but flushing is a more aggressive process because of the volume of water used.... The flushing agents are basically surfactants that help knock loose the cations that are bound up to the medium particles, removing them from the root field, doing more than water alone will do... (look up CEC, cation exchange capacity)... Other enzyme-type products, (not a flushing agent), help break down organic matter, from whatever source, and free up the nutrients they contain to the soil microbes and plant,...All this makes for better quality smoke vs. a plants that gets harvested still loaded with nutrients, etc.,... There are synthetic and organic based flushing agents,.. I like Sledgehammer, an organic one, that's made from yucca extract that has saponins in it... yucca is very widely used in a variety of plant products...not sure what the synthetic stuff is made of....>> Pal - the problem with such a test is that it's too subjective,... Not to say it isn't worth a try, just be cautious about the conclusion you may reach; each individual plant- and pot- is it's own little ecosystem, and though they may start the same, they don't end up the same in terms of what's in the plant, and medium by harvest...also, it's not a good idea to waterlog your plant just prior to harvest,... they're best harvested starving and a little thirsty! ...LOL! I hate to get picky, but flushing and "nute's" don't go together,.. there's nothing nutritional about flushing agents, and they're not taken up by the plant, even the organic stuff! ..Invincible, it depends on what nute's you're using, and how heavy you feed,.. when using fully organic nute's, by general consensus, don't really require a cleansing, much less a flushing... TLO soil's are actually harmed by flushing; it's all about the soil herd with these type products and soils,...they do the breakdown of various nutrients, cycling them, changing them into forms available to the plant and to each other,... synthetic nutes are often salt based, more concentrated, and thus can more readily lead to excess build-up,... so, if you used synthetic's, and fed pretty aggressively, a flush a week or so before harvest would be fine,... otherwise, a cleansing period alone should be fine,... plenty of contention and opinion on this though!
Great response Waira 
As I said earlier I've never actually used any flushing agents before but this conversation has sparked a curiosity in me! I feel like if they do the job as described then we should all really be using them yet it seems the majority of growers I've come into contact with just use plain water for the cleanse. I use the Canna range mainly so may pick up a bottle when the time comes, I can't imagine it would have any adverse effects on taste? As in it couldn't hurt to try? Nice to hear there are organic flushing agents too, the taste from organic is great without it and if it can be improved that way then that's a win!
As I said earlier I've never actually used any flushing agents before but this conversation has sparked a curiosity in me! I feel like if they do the job as described then we should all really be using them yet it seems the majority of growers I've come into contact with just use plain water for the cleanse. I use the Canna range mainly so may pick up a bottle when the time comes, I can't imagine it would have any adverse effects on taste? As in it couldn't hurt to try? Nice to hear there are organic flushing agents too, the taste from organic is great without it and if it can be improved that way then that's a win! 
"There are many individual metals that needs to be pulled out of crops" Total bullshit.
IMO, a waste of time and money. If people were more conservative with mineral nutes, you wouldn't need to do this. Also, NO AMOUNT of "flushing" removes anything from a plant. Once it enters the plant, its there until used. The mechanism for mineral ions to enter the plant only allow hydrogen or oxygen ions to exit, nothing else.
Of course nutrient companies tell you to use large amounts of nutes, they want yo to buy more! I've seen multiple instances of hydro gorwers for example, growing huge plants yet keeping PPMs in the 600 ppm range vs the 1200+ recommended and that many people use. Plants can only absorb what they need. Unlike people, they don't over eat and you can't force feed them. That 1200 ppm dose you gave them will feed them for 2-3 weeks!
This is a great way though, to relieve growers of there excess money...........
IMO, a waste of time and money. If people were more conservative with mineral nutes, you wouldn't need to do this. Also, NO AMOUNT of "flushing" removes anything from a plant. Once it enters the plant, its there until used. The mechanism for mineral ions to enter the plant only allow hydrogen or oxygen ions to exit, nothing else.
Of course nutrient companies tell you to use large amounts of nutes, they want yo to buy more! I've seen multiple instances of hydro gorwers for example, growing huge plants yet keeping PPMs in the 600 ppm range vs the 1200+ recommended and that many people use. Plants can only absorb what they need. Unlike people, they don't over eat and you can't force feed them. That 1200 ppm dose you gave them will feed them for 2-3 weeks!
This is a great way though, to relieve growers of there excess money...........
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