New Grower First Grow First Diary: White Widow (Shaneequah)

[Mañ'O'Green]

@morris4019 I made a comment about feeding "balanced nutrients". Let me you point you to what I am talking about it is Liebig's law of the minimums; It states that growth is dictated not by total resources available, but by the scarcest resource (limiting factor). The barrel picture is a visual representation of his rule. It is the reason I recommend to people to use only one entire nutrient line on their recommended schedule so every nutrient component stays in balance with the others. If you are not already aware of this Google it.

 

[morris4019]

So that does confirm my thinking then. I guess my method must be incorrect then. Here is my procedure, and please chime in-i would really appreciate feedback.

Provided:

• 2 x 5gal buckets rotating bubbled water using a 6w 4 outlet (2x each bucket) so that i always have non-chlorinated water as best i can manage. Typical water readings are(bubbled): ph[6.6-7.3], ec[~34], ppm[~17]
• using pancellent TDS&EC pen and pancellent PH pens
• currently, and have been, targeting 1/2 recommended dose (which i assumed, maybe incorrectly, meant ~half the target EC and PPM readings)

1/2 Dose (Week 9 Veg FoxFarms Soil Schedule for basic nutes(green)):

EC Target: 12.5 (1250)
PPM Target: 875 - 980​

• 1.5 tsp Big Bloom
• .5 tsp Grow Big
• 1 tsp Tiger Bloom
• 0.25 scoop Great White (added by me )

Mixing my nutes (today actually...):

• Water In (bubbled water): ph[6.1], ec[34], ppm[17], temp[60.8F]
• Nute Water: ph[6.26] ec[2030], ppm[1015], temp[60.8F]

Now i know what you are saying... um... ec is too high-but this is where some confusion comes in for me. I don't see a way to achieve the numbers provided (even at full strength) hahaha-they never align. Also-to get the ppm (and i went to the high side, i need to pour some out and add some ph'd bubbled water i think) in the right range i had to go above what they recommended... i heeded the advice and did not add any more than the 0.5 tsp of the Grow Big-but i ended up using the following JUST to get a gallon of what i have:​

• 2.5 tsp Big Bloom
• 0.5 tsp Grow Big
• 3 tsp Tiger Bloom
• 0.25 scoop Great White

Currently that gallon is just sitting in the grow tent getting warmed up-but wanted to reach out before i do a watering with it (and, yes, after i dilute it a bit to get PPM back in the right range)... if i need to throw it out and start again i can-i just wanted to explain my thinking behind my process so hopefully i can figure out what it is i'm doing wrong haha.

 

[jingo]

You know, when I was using Fox Farm Trio in soil I found it almost mandatory to flush on their schedule. I never tried measuring EC or TDS I don't think it really works with organic nutrients. I tried it once with Remo and I guarantee it doesn't work with that.

I've been following, but maybe not too close. Usually when you feed in soil you're doing it once every other or every 3rd watering. I didn't really notice what it is you have doing?

Now I'm starting to forget what was in the post, I picked up some sugar wax at a local dispensary in it's quite good. Let's see.... okay, I remember are you feeding those beneficial microbes in the great white? If not you won't really be getting the organic benefits and pretty much have to do some flushes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

So that does confirm my thinking then. I guess my method must be incorrect then. Here is my procedure, and please chime in-i would really appreciate feedback.

Provided:

• 2 x 5gal buckets rotating bubbled water using a 6w 4 outlet (2x each bucket) so that i always have non-chlorinated water as best i can manage. Typical water readings are(bubbled): ph[6.6-7.3], ec[~34], ppm[~17]
• using pancellent TDS&EC pen and pancellent PH pens
• currently, and have been, targeting 1/2 recommended dose (which i assumed, maybe incorrectly, meant ~half the target EC and PPM readings)

View attachment 907956

1/2 Dose (Week 9 Veg FoxFarms Soil Schedule for basic nutes(green)):

EC Target: 12.5 (1250)
PPM Target: 875 - 980​

• 1.5 tsp Big Bloom
• .5 tsp Grow Big
• 1 tsp Tiger Bloom
• 0.25 scoop Great White (added by me )

Mixing my nutes (today actually...):

• Water In (bubbled water): ph[6.1], ec[34], ppm[17], temp[60.8F]
• Nute Water: ph[6.26] ec[2030], ppm[1015], temp[60.8F]

Now i know what you are saying... um... ec is too high-but this is where some confusion comes in for me. I don't see a way to achieve the numbers provided (even at full strength) hahaha-they never align. Also-to get the ppm (and i went to the high side, i need to pour some out and add some ph'd bubbled water i think) in the right range i had to go above what they recommended... i heeded the advice and did not add any more than the 0.5 tsp of the Grow Big-but i ended up using the following JUST to get a gallon of what i have:​

• 2.5 tsp Big Bloom
• 0.5 tsp Grow Big
• 3 tsp Tiger Bloom
• 0.25 scoop Great White

Currently that gallon is just sitting in the grow tent getting warmed up-but wanted to reach out before i do a watering with it (and, yes, after i dilute it a bit to get PPM back in the right range)... if i need to throw it out and start again i can-i just wanted to explain my thinking behind my process so hopefully i can figure out what it is i'm doing wrong haha.

Ok looking at week 9 the balanced ratio is 3:1:2 big bloom/grow big/tiger bloom so if you want a 50% strength then it is 1.5:.5:1 simply divide in half or use 3:1:2 in two gallons of water. Trying to use PPM of each additive will not work since they do not raise the PPM in the same algorithmic progression. If you add 1.5 teaspoons of Big Bloom, 1/2 teaspoons of Grow Big and 1 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom to 1 gallon of water (do not add Great White yet it will change the PPM) your PPM should be half of the chart numbers. They do not state on their chart if they are taking into consideration your starting PPM but your numbers are low so not really a factor?

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

You know, when I was using Fox Farm Trio in soil I found it almost mandatory to flush on their schedule. I never tried measuring EC or TDS I don't think it really works with organic nutrients. I tried it once with Remo and I guarantee it doesn't work with that.

I've been following, but maybe not too close. Usually when you feed in soil you're doing it once every other or every 3rd watering. I didn't really notice what it is you have doing?

Now I'm starting to forget what was in the post, I picked up some sugar wax at a local dispensary in it's quite good. Let's see.... okay, I remember are you feeding those beneficial microbes in the great white? If not you won't really be getting the organic benefits and pretty much have to do some flushes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Do not flush soil until the grow is done. let me elaborate Coco is not really soil it is a hydro method of growing and if feeding at full strength flushing MAY be needed because of build up. Real Soil on the other hand should not need flushing especially when using 1/2 strength. Flushing really messes with the microbes and IMHO causes more problems than it solves. Just always feed in balance.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@morris4019 can we get a white light picture of the whole plant? It is much easier to see what is going on with nutrient uptake by looking at the whole plant.

 

[morris4019]

You know, when I was using Fox Farm Trio in soil I found it almost mandatory to flush on their schedule. I never tried measuring EC or TDS I don't think it really works with organic nutrients. I tried it once with Remo and I guarantee it doesn't work with that.

I've been following, but maybe not too close. Usually when you feed in soil you're doing it once every other or every 3rd watering. I didn't really notice what it is you have doing?

Now I'm starting to forget what was in the post, I picked up some sugar wax at a local dispensary in it's quite good. Let's see.... okay, I remember are you feeding those beneficial microbes in the great white? If not you won't really be getting the organic benefits and pretty much have to do some flushes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

@jingo i am using Great White with nute waterings, currently watering bubbled/ph'd water every other watering.

Ok looking at week 9 the balanced ratio is 3:1:2 big bloom/grow big/tiger bloom so if you want a 50% strength then it is 1.5:.5:1 simply divide in half or use 3:1:2 in two gallons of water. Trying to use PPM of each additive will not work since they do not raise the PPM in the same algorithmic progression. If you add 1.5 teaspoons of Big Bloom, 1/2 teaspoons of Grow Big and 1 teaspoon of Tiger Bloom to 1 gallon of water (do not add Great White yet it will change the PPM) your PPM should be half of the chart numbers. They do not state on their chart if they are taking into consideration your starting PPM but your numbers are low so not really a factor?

@Mañ'O'Green i posted those exact ratios-which is what i used. When i used them i'm nowhere near half the target ec/ppm (and again, i think where my confusion starts). If you are saying i shouldn't go off of the ec/ppm readings at all then so be it-i'm just not getting why. Again, in my head, i assume that the ppm should be roughly half-but wasn't seeing this. So maybe let me ask this a different way. Let's say I screwed up and when i should have put 1.5tsp i actually put in somewhere between 1 and 1.5. Now, at the end, when i measure my ppm/ec, how would i know (or how should i go about determining to the best of my ability) 1) how to make up the difference in ec/ppm (i.e. how MUCH to add), and 2) of which fertz?

Do not flush soil until the grow is done. let me elaborate Coco is not really soil it is a hydro method of growing and if feeding at full strength flushing MAY be needed because of build up. Real Soil on the other hand should not need flushing especially when using 1/2 strength. Flushing really messes with the microbes and IMHO causes more problems than it solves. Just always feed in balance.

Up to this point i've done 1 flush during veg. But another flush is required before the last 2 weeks of flowering to remove the fertz right?

@morris4019 can we get a white light picture of the whole plant? It is much easier to see what is going on with nutrient uptake by looking at the whole plant.

here are some from under my florescent lights:

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Your plants look fine. Those older lower leaves may be showing a previous problem that has been corrected. You are not growing in Coco:

This is closer to real soil although some would argue that peat is not soil. The recommendation to flush is because they know there products have a salt build up problem when run at full strength. This line is one that can be run successfully ~50%.

Ok let's solve the measurement difficulties. This stuff is liquid right so get a measuring syringe and convert to ml per gallon. 1 teaspoon is equal to 4.928 ml or close enough to 5 ml. It is much easier than trying to pour stuff into a measuring spoon.

You know that there are two most often used PPM scales? The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS – total dissolved solids. Forget the posted PPMs and make your own chart. Carefully measure 1 gallon of water and then add 15 ml:10 ml: 10 ml and take a measurement with your TDS meter. This will give you a good idea of the PPM numbers you are actually working with.

I also just realized that the PPMs in their chart include all of the products listed including the ones that you are not using!

 

[morris4019]

I also just realized that the PPMs in their chart include all of the products listed including the ones that you are not using!

@Mañ'O'Green thanks for this! i basically need to throw out these charts, then, unless i'm going to use the entire line (which i wasn't planning on atm).

This is closer to real soil although some would argue that peat is not soil. The recommendation to flush is because they know there products have a salt build up problem when run at full strength. This line is one that can be run successfully ~50%.

So i was not intending the flush because of coco-not sure where that came up, however, i WAS incorrectly still thinking i needed to flush (since i was "following the schedule"). I think a LOT of this is my ignorance and lack of experience I'll discontinue planning flushes unless there is a reason to (i.e. salt build ups).

Ok let's solve the measurement difficulties. This stuff is liquid right so get a measuring syringe and convert to ml per gallon. 1 teaspoon is equal to 4.928 ml or close enough to 5 ml. It is much easier than trying to pour stuff into a measuring spoon.

This i definitely do, i think because i was expecting those numbers to come up... and they never did... i was boned from the start I'm going to change my plan of attack now that i know-cause knowing is half the battle.

You know that there are two most often used PPM scales? The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS – total dissolved solids. Forget the posted PPMs and make your own chart. Carefully measure 1 gallon of water and then add 15 ml:10 ml: 10 ml and take a measurement with your TDS meter. This will give you a good idea of the PPM numbers you are actually working with.

^^ I LOVE THIS-because as i'm taking and looking over past data i'm seeing that there are all sorts of things that have a direct effect on these numbers (numero uno was learning why my bubbly water raises in pH for awhile lol). My meter is labeled as a TDS meter-so i'm assuming it is the NaCl variant. I'll do some research on this so i'm a little more in-the-know.

This is great stuff guys! Thank you all so much btw-loving this. now it's time with the wife

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Mañ'O'Green thanks for this! i basically need to throw out these charts, then, unless i'm going to use the entire line (which i wasn't planning on atm).



So i was not intending the flush because of coco-not sure where that came up, however, i WAS incorrectly still thinking i needed to flush (since i was "following the schedule"). I think a LOT of this is my ignorance and lack of experience I'll discontinue planning flushes unless there is a reason to (i.e. salt build ups).


This i definitely do, i think because i was expecting those numbers to come up... and they never did... i was boned from the start I'm going to change my plan of attack now that i know-cause knowing is half the battle.


^^ I LOVE THIS-because as i'm taking and looking over past data i'm seeing that there are all sorts of things that have a direct effect on these numbers (numero uno was learning why my bubbly water raises in pH for awhile lol). My meter is labeled as a TDS meter-so i'm assuming it is the NaCl variant. I'll do some research on this so i'm a little more in-the-know.

This is great stuff guys! Thank you all so much btw-loving this. now it's time with the wife

Relax. The learning curve is steep in the beginning. Hell I continue to learn new things every day. Don't throw out the chart it has information you need to keep the components in balance. In the future you may want to add the rest of the nutrients in the program. I used to think that the nutrient companies were just selling add on stuff I did not need. I have changed my opinion on that and now use the full line and only the full line from a single vendor. The results really are superior.