New Grower Fact or bullsh*t ? ATTENTION soil growers !!

calabria420

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What up peeps!!! So I was searching the web to see if I could use my Dutch pro ph down with the new organic Green planet medi one Nutes that I bought ( anyone that knows if that's ok or not by the way by all means please chime in ) so onto why I'm posting originally .... So as I was searching for that , I ran into this grow forum that basically goes against everything most of the experienced growers here on AFN and many others preach about adjusting your plants nutrient solution PH for soil growing ...as a new grower I don't know what to think about this , as I read that it's also a reputable group that the info is coming from . What is the actual truth ? Is this bull or not ?? I Want to hear some opinions and facts from my fellow AFN family members.....here's the link to what I read: http://www.growell.co.uk/blog/2011/04/getting-your-hands-dirty-growing-in-soil/
:pass:
 
Calabria, this is a complex subject and I would highly recommend you do some research on pH and how it affects plants. My short answer is that all new growers should have a handle on pH, as that tends to be one of the most common sources of problems. If you are comparing soil to hydro, as that website seems to be doing, then I would agree that it's somewhat less important in soil. But that doesn't mean you should ignore it, either. The exception is when you are growing organically with a carefully amended soil mix that has a healthy microherd that nourishes the plants for you. But that is something different than the bottle nutes that you have.

I have not used the Green Planet nutes that you have, but they clearly say to pH your growing solution prior to feeding. Your Dutch Pro pH down should be fine for that. Having a good pH meter for testing your feed as well as runoff is key, and to really excel, you should consider a high quality soil meter such as this one: Amazon product ASIN B004PDNQOK
Sure, some folks just pour water and nutes on their plants without ever thinking of pH, and they end up with decent grows. But more commonly we see new growers who find out too late the their pH is way off, and with the short lifespan of autos, there is little time to recover. It's far better to understand pH and maintain the proper range from the beginning. :greenthumb:
 
:smoking:
Calabria, this is a complex subject and I would highly recommend you do some research on pH and how it affects plants. My short answer is that all new growers should have a handle on pH, as that tends to be one of the most common sources of problems. If you are comparing soil to hydro, as that website seems to be doing, then I would agree that it's somewhat less important in soil. But that doesn't mean you should ignore it, either. The exception is when you are growing organically with a carefully amended soil mix that has a healthy microherd that nourishes the plants for you. But that is something different than the bottle nutes that you have.

I have not used the Green Planet nutes that you have, but they clearly say to pH your growing solution prior to feeding. Your Dutch Pro pH down should be fine for that. Having a good pH meter for testing your feed as well as runoff is key, and to really excel, you should consider a high quality soil meter such as this one: Amazon product ASIN B004PDNQOK
Sure, some folks just pour water and nutes on their plants without ever thinking of pH, and they end up with decent grows. But more commonly we see new growers who find out too late the their pH is way off, and with the short lifespan of autos, there is little time to recover. It's far better to understand pH and maintain the proper range from the beginning. :greenthumb:
Ty Andy ! Hearing from you that my ph down will be fine takes a load off my shoulders , and I couldn't agree with you more on the PH situation ! Finding that other info was confusing but interesting at the same time for me .....as for the accurate 8 , I already own one :smoking:because all the good info and advice I get Is mainly from the fine people like your self here on AFN ! Lol ! Much respect ! One love :jointman:
 
Glad to help! I fought my own battles with pH when I was starting out, and it's no fun. One thing worth mentioning about the Dutch Pro is that they have grow and bloom formulas for their pH up and down, so be sure that you're not using them during the wrong phase of growing. I prefer pH adjusters with no added nutrients so that I can use them throughout the entire grow.
 
Glad to help! I fought my own battles with pH when I was starting out, and it's no fun. One thing worth mentioning about the Dutch Pro is that they have grow and bloom formulas for their pH up and down, so be sure that you're not using them during the wrong phase of growing. I prefer pH adjusters with no added nutrients so that I can use them throughout the entire grow.
I hear you bro ! And thx again ! I have both grow & bloom .... Nitric acid based for grow and phosphoric for bloom I assume .....I never even realized my ph adjusters had added nutrients ... What ph nutrient adjusters do you recommend ; that have no added nutes in it ?
:pass:
 
Used General Hydroponics PH Up with my Medi One 4-3-3 nutes for my entire grow with no issues at all. I used a syringe and added just a tiny amount of PH Up (few drops) at a time, as it doesn't take much at all. Haven't tried PH down though.
 
Calabria, I agree with what Andy said but would like to drive down a little further into the topic. I would like to think I have studied this topic in extreme detail and hopefully can answer your question.

The first thing you have to do is understand that not all "organic" is equal. There are several organic methods that many practice:
1) Using an inert media such as promix, sunshine or some peat based medium and adding bottled organic nutrients. This is probably the most common method.
2) Using a bagged soil which is comprised of various peat, compost, rice hulls, vermiculite and such but that also includes many organic amendments as well such as fish meal, bone meal, etc. Some may or may not add more bottled organic nutrients or various other organic amendments to this as the grow progresses. This is probably a close second to the first path.
3) Using a true soil, one which is created by the user or someone with a good knowledge base on how to build a soil from various components such as peat, vermiculite, rice hulls, perlite, and many other amendments. This is closely related to path 2 except the grower will probably have a higher knowledge of how the soil/plant symbiosis works. This is one of the lesser paths that normally requires some skill to develop and nurture the soil.
4) Some use organic nutrients in hydro but I won't discuss that as your question seems to relate specifically to a medium other than water based. If you would like further explanation on this subject, ask, and I will explain in more detail. I have grown this way as well.

So, now that we have established the various ways an organic gardener can grow we can isolate each and how pH will affect them., referring back to the original numbers.
1) Your medium will probably have a fairly stable pH of 6.6 - 6.8 and enough buffer in it to keep the pH in that range throughout the grow. If you are adding strictly dry amendments to this medium then you shouldn't have to concern yourself with pH. If you are adding bottled organic nutrients to this base you may want to check the pH of each feed after you mix with water. In most cases, your pH probably won't be too far from 6.0 - 6.6 and in those cases there should be no need to adjust pH. If you are using a liquid silica, or some form of rhino skin or something like this then it would be imperative to adjust pH because of their high alkalinity, in some cases I have seen them as high a 14.3 out of the bottle! This can throw your pH way out of balance. For the most part though, if using a standard set of nutrients such as GO Box or FF Trio you should still be fine with those in an inert medium.
2) Here is where I see most growers, especially new ones have problems. You have a powerful soil in terms of nutrients. Many bagged soils are pretty "hot" and all of these nutrients contained in the soil does affect pH and in many cases causes it to become acidic. Using straight water throughout the grow and most growers will be OK without checking pH IF the soil is of good quality. Many times, for the past few years we have seen FF out of the bag vary wildly in pH and should be tested continuously. My opinion, there are very few bagged soils that are of good quality. Especially with the explosion of the indoor growers the past few years, manufacturing hasn't been able to keep up and quality has been slipping for years. Now, if you begin adding nutrients to a soil already packed full of nutrients then you are definitely going to have to test pH regularly and adjust as needed. More importantly and specifically, adjust feed water and not soil! Applying liming agents and such simply isn't going to help with your soil. Lime is meant to be a long term solution to soil acidity and given the fact that we are growing short season crops there isn't enough time to adjust soil pH. So, the only thing you can do is try to correct the feed water and give the plant a "liquid" pH in the correct range to allow her time to absorb those nutrients. Once the liquid has dried from the soil, your pH is back to where is started or pretty close and in some cases possibly worse if you are feeding a lot of excess nutrients.
3) Lastly, my favourite way to grow. True soil if created by an experienced soil builder, will be/should be close to the correct pH and should contain enough buffer in it to hold that pH throughout the grow. Here is the KEY, created by an experienced soil builder! There are a lot of recipes that are out there that are just guess work. Most of them are that way. For me, with my recipe, I have never and will never pH my soil. Here is the catch though, I ensure my pH is proper when I build the soil and I ensure that I have enough base buffer to keep it set throughout my grow. Also, I don't add any bottled nutrients to my mix throughout the grow. Adding more nutrients to the soil than is needed is going to throw your pH out and would need to be checked regularly to adjust as necessary.

So, sorry for the long explanation but hopefully that gives you a better understanding of natural or organic growing and pH. Anyone that says you never have to adjust pH is either trying to dumb things down or is dumb. pH is an important factor in all growing, regardless of organic or chemical. Can it be easier in organics? Yes, once you are sure of everything you are using and how you applying nutrients. It can be. Even then, it is an important tool to have in the chest for if/when you run into problems.

Best of luck on your journey my friend! Wishing you much success in your growing endeavours! There are several of us here that adhere to "true organic" principals and we are always available to answer questions. @DubV , @Eyes on Fire and myself to name a few. Feel free to PM anytime.
 
Used General Hydroponics PH Up with my Medi One 4-3-3 nutes for my entire grow with no issues at all. I used a syringe and added just a tiny amount of PH Up (few drops) at a time, as it doesn't take much at all. Haven't tried PH down though.
Ty bro for the info ! Greatly appreciated ! Respect !
 
Calabria, I agree with what Andy said but would like to drive down a little further into the topic. I would like to think I have studied this topic in extreme detail and hopefully can answer your question.

The first thing you have to do is understand that not all "organic" is equal. There are several organic methods that many practice:
1) Using an inert media such as promix, sunshine or some peat based medium and adding bottled organic nutrients. This is probably the most common method.
2) Using a bagged soil which is comprised of various peat, compost, rice hulls, vermiculite and such but that also includes many organic amendments as well such as fish meal, bone meal, etc. Some may or may not add more bottled organic nutrients or various other organic amendments to this as the grow progresses. This is probably a close second to the first path.
3) Using a true soil, one which is created by the user or someone with a good knowledge base on how to build a soil from various components such as peat, vermiculite, rice hulls, perlite, and many other amendments. This is closely related to path 2 except the grower will probably have a higher knowledge of how the soil/plant symbiosis works. This is one of the lesser paths that normally requires some skill to develop and nurture the soil.
4) Some use organic nutrients in hydro but I won't discuss that as your question seems to relate specifically to a medium other than water based. If you would like further explanation on this subject, ask, and I will explain in more detail. I have grown this way as well.

So, now that we have established the various ways an organic gardener can grow we can isolate each and how pH will affect them., referring back to the original numbers.
1) Your medium will probably have a fairly stable pH of 6.6 - 6.8 and enough buffer in it to keep the pH in that range throughout the grow. If you are adding strictly dry amendments to this medium then you shouldn't have to concern yourself with pH. If you are adding bottled organic nutrients to this base you may want to check the pH of each feed after you mix with water. In most cases, your pH probably won't be too far from 6.0 - 6.6 and in those cases there should be no need to adjust pH. If you are using a liquid silica, or some form of rhino skin or something like this then it would be imperative to adjust pH because of their high alkalinity, in some cases I have seen them as high a 14.3 out of the bottle! This can throw your pH way out of balance. For the most part though, if using a standard set of nutrients such as GO Box or FF Trio you should still be fine with those in an inert medium.
2) Here is where I see most growers, especially new ones have problems. You have a powerful soil in terms of nutrients. Many bagged soils are pretty "hot" and all of these nutrients contained in the soil does affect pH and in many cases causes it to become acidic. Using straight water throughout the grow and most growers will be OK without checking pH IF the soil is of good quality. Many times, for the past few years we have seen FF out of the bag vary wildly in pH and should be tested continuously. My opinion, there are very few bagged soils that are of good quality. Especially with the explosion of the indoor growers the past few years, manufacturing hasn't been able to keep up and quality has been slipping for years. Now, if you begin adding nutrients to a soil already packed full of nutrients then you are definitely going to have to test pH regularly and adjust as needed. More importantly and specifically, adjust feed water and not soil! Applying liming agents and such simply isn't going to help with your soil. Lime is meant to be a long term solution to soil acidity and given the fact that we are growing short season crops there isn't enough time to adjust soil pH. So, the only thing you can do is try to correct the feed water and give the plant a "liquid" pH in the correct range to allow her time to absorb those nutrients. Once the liquid has dried from the soil, your pH is back to where is started or pretty close and in some cases possibly worse if you are feeding a lot of excess nutrients.
3) Lastly, my favourite way to grow. True soil if created by an experienced soil builder, will be/should be close to the correct pH and should contain enough buffer in it to hold that pH throughout the grow. Here is the KEY, created by an experienced soil builder! There are a lot of recipes that are out there that are just guess work. Most of them are that way. For me, with my recipe, I have never and will never pH my soil. Here is the catch though, I ensure my pH is proper when I build the soil and I ensure that I have enough base buffer to keep it set throughout my grow. Also, I don't add any bottled nutrients to my mix throughout the grow. Adding more nutrients to the soil than is needed is going to throw your pH out and would need to be checked regularly to adjust as necessary.

So, sorry for the long explanation but hopefully that gives you a better understanding of natural or organic growing and pH. Anyone that says you never have to adjust pH is either trying to dumb things down or is dumb. pH is an important factor in all growing, regardless of organic or chemical. Can it be easier in organics? Yes, once you are sure of everything you are using and how you applying nutrients. It can be. Even then, it is an important tool to have in the chest for if/when you run into problems.

Best of luck on your journey my friend! Wishing you much success in your growing endeavours! There are several of us here that adhere to "true organic" principals and we are always available to answer questions. @DubV , @Eyes on Fire and myself to name a few. Feel free to PM anytime.
Wow ! Thx for that great write up brother A4 ! Great info in there ! Much respect ! And Ty very much for your help offering dude ! It's because of members like yourself & all the staff , like AndyBotwin at AFN here that make this the best cannabis growing forum in the world ! Great thanks ! :cheers:
 
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