Cooperative grow (leaves look very poorly)

Hey blue sorry I am trying to quote reply but it does not seem to be working.

I am using tap water (hard water area). I am in Europe and our local water quality is really good. Ha yeah 30 for a first grow is a heck of a lot. I am doing a cooperative grow for myself and a few friends. We have 5 plants each although at this rate I don't know if we will have any to our name :(. Yeah tent is indoors in a flat. I have a window open now as temps were getting too high and now it stays open I am at around 26c and 55% humidity at a constant. I don't think it is a bug issue as ive checked for them and they don't seem to have anything under the leaves or bits of waste the bugs leave, but I could just not be checking right.

Ok, thanks! :D ... So don't worry about plant numbers for now .. lets focus on health.

I'm seeing a clear cal mag deficiency .. however throwing more nutes at it is not going to solve the problem. It's 90% PH problem in my opnion

Some of the photo's "could" be potential bugs... but i don't see how - biobizz is reliable and you're in a flat.

This one, i'd check under the leaves - take a really close look for bugs or anything that looks suspect .

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I'll be back in a mo for some more - Just having a smoke break :D
 
I'm back for more :D

So the water from the tap - are you letting it dechlorinate? to do this you'll need to let the water "gas off" .. to do this either have it in buckets for at least 24 hours.
The chlorine will not help your mission with biobizz soil and nutes.

To avoid this woe early on, i'll buy water from Tescos (if you have them). The own brand has a PH of 6.2 which is kinda ideal and the biobizz soil has buffers that can handle any minor swings - But if your water is hard (i've lived in a city and had PH up to 7.8), the soil won't correct that and you'll likely get nutrient lockout where the plant just can't take them.

Plant numbers - I can see a good few that i'd probably keep. In my honest opinion, you could half that numbers and still pull the same amount - sounds crazy right? ... more plants = more dope .... but it only does if they have the space, as a plant will grow into the available space as much as it can given the right environmental conditions. (temp, humidity, light and root zone/soil condition)

.. and a plant can grow beastly large.

More plants ultimately can lead to more risk of mold and more hassle to water and keep in good condtion. Not to mention the cost of soil..nutes ...water...

You can check out my threads if you like to see how i do it (not complicated at all), they're in my signature and the current one is the green one at the top.

I could recommend some changes for your next grow (setup wise) that will make life a lot easier for you all and pull fantastic results. It'll involve a bit of cost though (auto-pots)
 
Also, just out of curiosity, what lights are you running in there? How high are they?

And do you have trays under all those pots? How will you be collecting and removing the run off water (with plant health problem and salts buildup in the soil, you'll almost certainly have to do this to correct the issue and make a nice soil enivorment for them)

Edit: Lastly ^_^

How would i go about fixing it?

I would buy that water from Tescos (if that's an option), and mix about 3ml per ltire of Biobizz grow.

Slowly water a plant, not heavily pouring it in, take a bit of time. Wait until you're getting trickles of run off ... about a cup full of run off. then get rid of the run off water and let the plant do it's thing for about 4 days and then come back and check, and probably do the same.

Repeat this for all the plants you want to keep.

Ulitmately you shouldn't need to water to run off as if you're giving it the perfect feed, there'll be no salt buildups. But I'd be thinking of pushing whatever crap is in the soil, out of it.

The buggered looking leaves won't repair themselves ... but new growth should be coming out green, and staying green and healthy.

Hope this helps you fix the issue,

All the best

Blue
:d5:
 
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Hi @Maraconi I fed them mg and things are just getting worse. It has spread to most of the plants and the leaves are turning bright orange. I don't think it is magnesium
It is. Those leaves that have the necrosis going will not get better. Look at the new growth for signs of improvement. If its getting worse on some, then they need a little more epsom salts. Are you growing under led?
Also, plants use chlorine too. Its chloramines that you should be worried about.
 
It is. Those leaves that have the necrosis going will not get better. Look at the new growth for signs of improvement. If its getting worse on some, then they need a little more epsom salts. Are you growing under led?
Also, plants use chlorine too. Its chloramines that you should be worried about.

I don't disagree with the "general" diagnosis.

However spraying with epson salts wont fix the issue .. perhaps delay some symptoms temporarily - but i'd suspect there's an issue that caused the def .. and it's not what was originally in the soil or nutrients at this age.

Chloramines as you say are the worst to have in water ... as they don't gas off.
Chlorine is (apparently) used by plants as a micro nutirent - however the rolw in plays for the plant (or desirable quanities) are not understood by mitchigan state university.

Here's a fun article on Nutrients i collated for my own refernce, with their usage and mobility. I've bolded an important bit at the bottom.

Hope this helps everyone! :D

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Seventeen elements have been identified as vital to plant growth.
Three elements, carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, are non-minerals. The other 14 are minerals.

Carbon and oxygen enter plants through leaves as carbon dioxide.
Oxygen also enters plants with hydrogen through roots as water.

The other 14 must be dissolved in soil water and enter the plant as roots take up water.

Mineral elements can further be divided into primary or secondary macronutrients and micronutrients.

Macronutrients are those needed in relatively large amounts while micronutrients, as their name implies, are needed in small amounts. However, a deficiency in any vital element can seriously inhibit plant development.


The 14 elements essential for plant growth and their mobility and role within the plant. (Yes - it's mobile ... No - It's immobile)

Macronutrients

Primary


Nitrogen (N) Yes
Formation of amino acids, vitamins and proteins; cell division

Phosphorous (P) Yes
Energy storage and transfer; cell growth; root and seed formation and growth; winter hardiness; water use

Potassium (K) Yes
Carbohydrate metabolism, breakdown and translocation; water efficiency; fruit formation; winter hardiness; disease resistance

Secondary

Calcium (Ca) No
Cell division and formation; nitrogen metabolism; translocation; fruit set

Magnesium (Mg) Yes
Chlorophyll production; phosphorus mobility; iron utilization; fruit maturation

Sulfur (S) No
Amino acids formation; enzyme and vitamin development; seed production; chlorophyll formation

Micronutrients

Boron (B) No
Pollen grain germination and tube growth; seed and cell wall formation; maturity promotion; sugar translocation

Chlorine (Cl) Yes
Role not well understood

Copper (Cu) No
Metabolic catalyst; functions in photosynthesis and reproduction; increases sugar; intensifies color; improves flavor

Iron (Fe) No
Chlorophyll formation; oxygen carrier; cell division and growth

Manganese (Mn) No
Involved in enzyme systems; aids chlorophyll synthesis; P and CA availability

Molybdenum (Mo) Yes
Nitrate reductase formation; converts inorganic phosphates to organic

Nickel (Ni) Yes
Nitrogen metabolism and fixation; disease tolerance

Zinc (Zn) No
Hormone and enzyme systems; chlorophyll production; carbohydrate, starch and seed formation

HOW MOBILE & IMMOBILIE ELEMENTS WORK

Once inside plants, nutrients are transported to where they are needed, typically to growing points. Once incorporated by the plant, some elements can be immobile while others can be remobilized. Immobile elements essentially get locked in place and that is where they stay. Those that can be remobilized can leave their original location and move to areas of greater demand. Knowing which are mobile or immobile is helpful in diagnosing deficiency symptoms.

Since immobile elements do not easily move within the plant, when deficiency symptoms occur they show up in new growth (Photo 1). When mobile elements become limiting, they can be scavenged from older growth and moved to where they are most needed, causing deficiency symptoms in older growth (Photo 2).

11-14-Deficiency-symptoms-1-RON.jpg
11-14-Deficiency-symptoms-2-RON.jpg

Photos 1-2. (Left) Typical deficiency symptoms of a non- mobile nutrient (iron) within the plant. Note newer leaves are more affected. (Right) Typical deficiency symptoms of a mobile nutrient (nitrogen) within the plant. Note older leaves are senescing while younger leaves are still green. Photo credits: Howard F. Schwartz, Colorado State University, Bugwood.org (left) and R.L. Croissant, Bugwood.org (right)

Most nutrient deficiencies need a certain amount of time after growth begins for symptoms to occur. Early growth is often not fast enough or of a great enough volume for symptom expression. Deficiencies are often revealed when the plant is at maximum growth or at other times of high nutrient demand such as fruit development.

According to Michigan State University Extension, nutrient deficiencies can be due to a number of reasons. The most obvious is that the element is not in a high enough level naturally in the soil. Many sand-based soils with high leaching potential are often low in highly soluble nutrients. In some cases, the element is in adequate levels, but unavailable due to pH being too high or too low or the soil temperature being too low for adequate uptake. Other reasons could be too little or too much water or soil compaction. Remember all mineral elements need to come from the soil and if water uptake is interrupted for any reason, so is nutrient uptake.
 
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@blue @Maraconi Hey guys sorry for the delay, been really busy last few days after an emergency, came back to see your replies waiting for me :) I apreciate the help.

I have contacted my local waterboard and asked about the water quality and I recieved a reply yesterday. My area is actually a soft water area and water is not flourinated and naturally occuring flouride is very low (I live near countryside). So it isn't the water that is the issue. They have been fed CALMAG and if anythng the leaves are getting worse.

I thought maybe it could be PH fluctuations, however as this happened before any nutrients were added and I am using organic nutes, I wouldn't of thought this would be a problem.
I think the only thing to do now is keep them going and see what happens, maybe a complete flush once they are dry?
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@blue @Maraconi Hey guys sorry for the delay, been really busy last few days after an emergency, came back to see your replies waiting for me :) I apreciate the help.

I have contacted my local waterboard and asked about the water quality and I recieved a reply yesterday. My area is actually a soft water area and water is not flourinated and naturally occuring flouride is very low (I live near countryside). So it isn't the water that is the issue. They have been fed CALMAG and if anythng the leaves are getting worse.

I thought maybe it could be PH fluctuations, however as this happened before any nutrients were added and I am using organic nutes, I wouldn't of thought this would be a problem.
I think the only thing to do now is keep them going and see what happens, maybe a complete flush once they are dry?View attachment 1055034 View attachment 1055035 View attachment 1055036 View attachment 1055038 View attachment 1055040 View attachment 1055041 View attachment 1055042
Its because you need to feed more mg. I also see calcium now in some of the new pics you have provided. Those plants must be calcium and magnesium whores. One of your pictures shows variegation which is not a bad thing. Up your calcium and magnesium more.
 
I am worried about continuously feeding them because of overwatering. I still need to wait until they dry out before refeeding right? Can I not just inject the calmag into the soil?
 
I had a problem like yours a few weeks ago; just not as bad. 1st attempt I added Cal-Mag but like you .... things got worse. Therefore my pH had to be off. These were 3 gallon pots so I pH'd 6 gallons of water to 6.4 which is the best pH for the uptake of Cal-Mag. The 6th gallon I added 10 ml. of Cal-Mag to. I flushed with the 5 gallons & then used the one with the Cal-Mag last. The next 2 waterings I added 5 ml. of Cal-Mag per Gal & ph of 6.4. I also cut off all the bad leaves Took about a week or so but they are perfectly fine now. This worked for me. It also sounds a lot like what Blue is saying.
 
I am worried about continuously feeding them because of overwatering. I still need to wait until they dry out before refeeding right? Can I not just inject the calmag into the soil?
Yes, if in soil let them dry out a little.
 
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