Casual seed grow -- environment impact on quality...?

[Humanrob]

Not sure where to ask this question, I suppose this is as good a place as any. I'm setting up to do a basic CS seed run, and I'm wondering about the importance (or lack of importance) of environment. Obviously, to get the biggest frostiest buds for smoking you want the best genetics matched with the best possible growing environment. What I'm wondering is, is breeding simply a genetic information transfer, or can a less than perfect environment impact the quality of the seeds produced?

I'm not neglecting them or anything, they are in good soil and will be fed, and are under decent lights, but I'm growing them in a room in our house out in the open (as opposed to in a tent), and I'm only giving them 12 hours of direct lighting per day. The other 12 hours will be spent at 66º, which is the temp we keep the house during the winter. The only other 'stress' I can think of is that the humidity in the house is low this time of year, around 47%. I don't expect they'll get very big, I don't really want them to and only have them in 2 gallon pots. My goal is that they be healthy, but hopefully smaller.

I'm just wondering if a plant grown to less than its full potential will produce less robust seeds than one, for instance, grown under 18/6 or 20/4 lighting in a larger pot with a more fully controlled/optimized environment? I'm not as concerned with the quantity of seeds as I am the quality, if that makes any difference.

 

[Olderfart]

Well, grobro, we are in the same boat precisely. I am assuming that as long as we keep our stud plant reasonably healthy, being limited in size and enthusiasm should make zero difference. Bottom line is that the genes are unlikely to change.

It is even possible, and no, I don't have evidence, that stress will convince the plant to get busy and get the pollen going.

You and I will see.

Good luck with it.

 

[Arthur]

2 female plants, same strain. 1 branch ea. pollenated, 1 was kept indoor and fed like all the girls, the other was outside in ok soil, wasn't fed much. Overall the outdoor plant was smaller, and the seeds were as well. Not unhealthy looking, just small. The seeds from the indoor girl were what I would call normal to large seeds.

I don't expect much if any difference in the seeds, how they're treated will play a much larger part than how their parents were.

I have heard heavy feeding can cause thick shells, causing hulls getting stuck, but I haven't experienced this. betting this is more of a "planted to shallow" issue than that.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Those are reasonable environmental conditions. Given proper nutrition and a good full ripening your seeds will be fine. The plants may get bigger than you want as this is mostly a genetic thing under normal conditions. You do not want to intentionally stunt them. Do not defoliate so the plant can produce as much energy as possible.

@Olderfart Stressing the plant can indeed spur the plant into making seed sooner but the quality of the seed may suffer as well as quality.

 

[Humanrob]

All good thoughts, thanks everyone.

I've pollenated regular photos from male plants in a controlled grow room (and outdoors), but never done the spray thing before or grown in the corner of a room in my house for that matter. Hopefully it'll go well. Seeds seem to be harder to find lately. I used to grow photos, and clones or seeds were easy to come by (Oregon). Now I'm growing 100% autos, and those seeds aren't anything I can get locally so it's more of a challenge.

 

[Olderfart]

Those are reasonable environmental conditions. Given proper nutrition and a good full ripening your seeds will be fine. The plants may get bigger than you want as this is mostly a genetic thing under normal conditions. You do not want to intentionally stunt them. Do not defoliate so the plant can produce as much energy as possible.

@Olderfart Stressing the plant can indeed spur the plant into making seed sooner but the quality of the seed may suffer as well as quality.

Agreed regarding the mother, I was talking about a dedicated stud plant being used only for pollen. It will be isolated from the main grow to avoid stray pollen getting at the other plants. My mother will get better treatment than the stud because she will be in the growdrobe.

It seems that I misunderstood that my grow setup will be different than the op’s plan to produce seeds from the reversed plants. I can’t even blame my confusion on being stoned.

 

[Olderfart]

Not sure where to ask this question, I suppose this is as good a place as any. I'm setting up to do a basic CS seed run, and I'm wondering about the importance (or lack of importance) of environment. Obviously, to get the biggest frostiest buds for smoking you want the best genetics matched with the best possible growing environment. What I'm wondering is, is breeding simply a genetic information transfer, or can a less than perfect environment impact the quality of the seeds produced?

I'm not neglecting them or anything, they are in good soil and will be fed, and are under decent lights, but I'm growing them in a room in our house out in the open (as opposed to in a tent), and I'm only giving them 12 hours of direct lighting per day. The other 12 hours will be spent at 66º, which is the temp we keep the house during the winter. The only other 'stress' I can think of is that the humidity in the house is low this time of year, around 47%. I don't expect they'll get very big, I don't really want them to and only have them in 2 gallon pots. My goal is that they be healthy, but hopefully smaller.

I'm just wondering if a plant grown to less than its full potential will produce less robust seeds than one, for instance, grown under 18/6 or 20/4 lighting in a larger pot with a more fully controlled/optimized environment? I'm not as concerned with the quantity of seeds as I am the quality, if that makes any difference.

Oops. I mistakenly thought that you were talking about plants reversed for pollen only, not ones that will produce seeds. I will actually be doing something different - reversing a whole plant, collecting pollen, and then fertilizing a branch or two of a separate mother plant later. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Humanrob]

Oops. I mistakenly thought that you were talking about plants reversed for pollen only, not ones that will produce seeds. I will actually be doing something different - reversing a whole plant, collecting pollen, and then fertilizing a branch or two of a separate mother plant later. Sorry for the confusion.

That sounds like a great idea. I think if I had a larger pool of plants to choose from I might have the confidence to choose pollen worth saving and spreading... but I'm in a less optimal situation. In some cases, I'm down to my last seed of a strain and I'm making a last ditch effort at continuing the lineage. It puts an unreasonable amount of pressure on that one seed -- if it's a strong pheno, then I'm in luck, if it's not... well then that's what I get. Which is one reason I'm doing this in my house. I had grown for years in my detached garage, but it's expensive and labor intensive to climate control the space, so I wouldn't go there for a roll of the dice grow like this. I'm keeping this low key, low effort, and low expectations.

At the moment, I'm working with Mephisto seeds, with the way things are going I have no idea if I'll ever be able to replace specific strains. I'm starting with one pollen donor to self pollinate, and one or two others for crosses with shared lineage. Probably more information than anyone wants, but... I started with a Walter White and the second was a Grapey Walter (Walter White x Grape Crinkle). Then the Walter White died. So I popped a Double Grape (Sour Stomper x Grape Crinkle) and a Sour Stomper. The Double Grape is the one I want to self pollinate, so that will be the starting point, and the others share some genes so hopefully the more limited cast of characters will create a narrower range of results.

I've read that to "do this right" I should have started the pollen donor weeks before the other recipients, but since I'm not using any of this for smoking, the plants can go full amber for all I care, they can live as long as they need to (or as long as I can keep them alive) in order to let the seeds mature. So that's where it's at. We'll see if anything comes of it.

 

[Humanrob]

2 female plants, same strain. 1 branch ea. pollenated, 1 was kept indoor and fed like all the girls, the other was outside in ok soil, wasn't fed much. Overall the outdoor plant was smaller, and the seeds were as well. Not unhealthy looking, just small. The seeds from the indoor girl were what I would call normal to large seeds.

I don't expect much if any difference in the seeds, how they're treated will play a much larger part than how their parents were.

I have heard heavy feeding can cause thick shells, causing hulls getting stuck, but I haven't experienced this. betting this is more of a "planted to shallow" issue than that.

That sounds like a great experiment, I'm glad you did it and shared the results. I've grown photos indoors and out, and up until now had only started autos indoors, and then grew them exclusively outdoors. This odd little experiment is my first indoor auto grow, if you can call it that.

What I have noticed with autos is that they are very impacted by temperature, and of course have little time to recover. I found that cold nighttime temps outdoors could really stunt them. I wonder if that was part of what caused your outdoor seeds not to fully develop?

 

[Humanrob]

Those are reasonable environmental conditions. Given proper nutrition and a good full ripening your seeds will be fine. The plants may get bigger than you want as this is mostly a genetic thing under normal conditions. You do not want to intentionally stunt them. Do not defoliate so the plant can produce as much energy as possible.

@Olderfart Stressing the plant can indeed spur the plant into making seed sooner but the quality of the seed may suffer as well as quality.

I would not attempt to 'stunt' them, but that said, I don't think I've ever grown a plant from seed (photo or auto) that I did not top. The habit started with outdoor grows, to keep them a little shorter and because I had lost that beautiful single large central cola to worms and/or mold a few times, and had better luck having a half dozen smaller main colas than one big one. I plan to top these once, just to limit their stretch, do you think that would be a problem?