Lighting Bilbo's Brief Guide to Choosing Your LED.

Haha, no worries...... And I must say I prefer not to ask questions that likely get answers I probably won't understand..... Lol..... If someone feel like explaining gravity, faster that light quantum entanglement and singularities, like for dummies, I'm all ears.....

Just thought that for anyone with a real interest and knowledge, this is an opportunity to hash some of the issues discussed in this excellent thread with a real professor, and the timing was fortuitous!
 
Xagor
I think I read that those chips become more blueish with degeneration. But emphasis on "cheaper" white.

But heat and driving parameters are an issue. Id say: never run a chip near its max rated current. But the opposite is beeing done e.g. with those "3W led" Panels -they usually run near their max at about 2,2W for white/blue and 2W for red.

Almost all LED is run near its stated output, we run around 12% under and that's borderline affecting the output of the chip, very few manufacturers run anything like this amount under capacity.

For cree cobs/leds you can find this, their lab results for long term lumenmaintenance and spectrum shift:
http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/XLamp Application Notes/LM80_Results.pdf
Im no expert, but those numbers look good to me. And while they give their result for 105°C or 85°C and pretty high currents-put on a nice heatsink, with reasonable currents, with active cooling Tj gets about 55°C -there is no need to worry at all.

In order to drive the LED correctly you need to give a high current, a higher current is much more important than the voltage. No matter what anyone says, you quickly get to some serious temperatures at the thermal junction, without a well thought out heatsink and fan combination LED quickly dies...

But they are significantly worse in photon output per W (regarding common blue + phosphor) and maybe even too much gets wasted as FR.

A high CRI has little or no effect on spectrum, they are usually slightly higher in either voltage or current requirements, but this is the big myth when it comes to LED, in that its hugely power efficient...it simply isn't, you are still going to have to put in somewhere around 50-60% of the power to get a similar light output to halogen or HiD...

But for MJ, neutral or cool white tends to prolong the flowering time, compared to ww. :(
Because most modern white is made from doped blue!

If I could make a suggestion for your RnD atleast for MJ grow lights with no additional sunlight, test some CXB3070/ CXB3590 3000K or better 3500K high bin 80CRI at about 50W. (this ww also looks totally different to what you have on ur hp as ww) I think you will be very impressed. Or just one chip for ur light measuring device at about 1,4Amps or less.
Or more budget oriented with Vero29 V2 chips.
Color mix doesnt get better then with white/ 1 type of chip that does it all, does it?
Is there any white cob available thats better then a 3590? I mean in a reasonable way -not some secret lab 99% efficiency 100K$ way.

Our other associated company manufactures commercial "white" LED fixtures, we've tried quite literally hundreds of whites, most make very little difference...the fact of the matter is that no matter what "version" of white you run, a neutral white is marginally (less than 2%) worse than warm or cold at either end of the cycle, and by adding in slightly more red to get more flowering, you tinge the white pink...which is very similar to what Illumitex use...So white has it's uses, BUT at the expense of not targeting wavelengths a plant wants and therefore wasting energy, which is what the argument for red blue is all about.

So for us, we have a dope which produces pretty much a very light pink to the human eye, but does have most of the wavelengths in that make up a full white, so there are greens, yellows and oranges just in very small quantities, as well as UV and FR into IR...

But we are working on a suitable white, but it takes time, and even in our research facility we can't grow mj because we don't independently hold a licence to, so any research we do carry out has to be in response to a clients wishes. What our client wants, a client gets, and that research belongs to them...although we do take some of that learned information away in order to produce lighting recipes for that client and tweak our own offering.
 
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...So white has it's uses, BUT at the expense of not targeting wavelengths a plant wants and therefore wasting energy, which is what the argument for red blue is all about.
Which wavelengths doesnt it want?
Per "yield per photon" green after 530nm is more efficient in driving photo. then blue.

From what I understood in the Utah State Univ. study, "spectrum" matters more for low light conditions/ or supplemental e.g. 30umol.
But not when you are blasting your indoor crop with 500umol /(s m^2)

"There is considerable misunderstanding over the effect of light quality on plant growth. Many manufacturers claim significantly increased plant growth due to light quality (spectral distribution or the ratio of the colors)."
[...]
"Over the past 30 years, numerous longer-term studies with whole plants in higher light indicate that light quality has a much smaller effect on plant growth rate than light quantity [6], [7]."
[...]
"The effects of light quality on fresh or dry mass in whole plants typically occur under low or no sunlight conditions, and are caused by changes in leaf expansion and radiation capture during early growth [6]."


Nelson JA, Bugbee B (2014) Economic Analysis of Greenhouse Lighting: Light Emitting Diodes vs. High Intensity Discharge Fixtures. PLoS ONE

I think neutral + reds is a good idea, also if its in 2 circuits you can switch between flower and veg.
But this drastically increases costs.


I think the lumi show is starting soon
 
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After a couple years with hydro grow boutique 336X. 2 second Gen and 1 3rd Gen......i just purchased my first Vipar 600 watt for $255 on E bay and it is kicking the same ass on this crit cheese and Blueberry that the high end stuff does.....HUh.....i think more Vipar is in order
 
I though this was helpful:
http://mjgrowers.com/book_what_leds.htm

for example:
.....different color LEDs require different forward voltages to operate - red LEDs take the least, and as the color moves up the color spectrum toward blue, the voltage requirement increases. Typically, a red LED requires about 2 volts, while blue LEDs require around 4 volts
..... non-linear relationship between voltage and current means that Ohm's Law doesn't work for LEDs
......a tiny increase in voltage can produce a large increase current, and lots of smoke.

@Yozhik ....small amounts of UV LEDs within a LED Grow Light design can help with genetic expressionism
 
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Just something that I found helpful:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community/growing-under-lights/71609-led-related-links.html

green.jpg
 
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Nice find Hubba!
Bloody good read too.

lanUvDz.png


... and yet

B7IAhHk.png


Seems Mother Nature ain't ready to give up her keys to the hermetically sealed vault of Intelligent Design just yet ...

:dancer:
 
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Nice find Hubba!
Bloody good read too.

Seems Mother Nature ain't ready to give up her keys to the hermetically sealed vault of Intelligent Design just yet ...

Thanks!
I figured if I added a pretty photo somebody might read the PDF, it is only one page. :biggrin:

When do you think lasers will be used in grow lights?
I know, I know, the idea is probably stupid, but they are already used in car headlights:
1200px-Audi_at_CES_2014_(11891990375).jpg
 
Great find.

Furthermore, addition of green light to a red and blue light source at a constant PPF increased growth as light intensity increased (Fig. 8B; compare to [8]). Kim et al. [6]observed similar effects.

Sun, J et al. 1998. Green Light Drives CO2 Fixation Deep within Leaves. Plant Cell
Physiology, 39(10):1020-1026.

Kim, HH et al. Green-light Supplementation for Enhanced Lettuce Growth under Red- and
Blue-light-emitting Diodes. 2004. HortScience, 39(7):1617-1622.

Terashima, I et al. 2009. Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red
Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green.

Companies that create lights for indoor growers should stop that R/B stuff. Science commands it.

I know, I know, the idea is probably stupid, but they are already used in car headlights
Why stupid? As far as I know its very efficient and the laser is not coming out in front but shooting a phosphor inside that emits the light. Expensive though.
 
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