All curing buds smell like mint?

[BII]

Yeah I’d probably just clean them, but I’m not known for having a cautious disposition.

But cleaning/washing won't remove what's still embedded in the plastics, hasn't off-gassed yet. The bottom line is there should simply be no odors with bags used to package and in contact with inhaled pharmaceutical products, and particularly bags used for curing, with getting desired natural odors a goal for most bag users.

I'd like to learn whether the bags (with and without odor) are 'safe,' meet common FDA food contact/use standards. I don't see that they need to be (bio)pharmaceutical grade, which is extreme in its requirements.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

i think ill stick with massive glass jars
yikes

 

[BII]

i think ill stick with massive glass jars
yikes

I avoid use of glass, and totally avoid using larger sizes, storing any signficant amount or any thing of high value in glass. Break or drop the container and can easily lose whole contents. - Usually can't fully rule out glass fragments remain in what is recovered. This is besides making a dangerous mess to clean up. The more "massive" the glass container, the more inherently prone it is to breakage; and can also be expensive. Decades back, I knew dealers foolish enough to store coke in glass, and despite repeated warnings inevitably suffered sometimes losses.

For anything of sufficient size or value, strong plastic [or metal] containers, whether rigid or bags (or bags in rigid containers), are what's best, safest, more fool-proof and fail-safe. There are multiple types of clear plastic available (for those seeking transparency, to inspect or display their buds).

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I avoid use of glass, and totally avoid using larger sizes, storing any signficant amount in glass. Break or drop the container and can easily lose whole contents. - Usually can't fully rule out glass fragments remain in what is recovered. This is besides making a dangerous mess to clean up. And the more "massive" the glass container, the more inherently prone it is to breakage, the more sensitive it is, etc.

Decades back, I knew dealers foolish enough to store coke in glass, and despite repeated warnings inevitably suffered the consequences, sometimes expensive losses. Strong plastic [or metal] containers, whether rigid or bags, are what's best, safest, more fool-proof and fail-safe. There are multiple types of clear plastic available (for those seeking transparency, to inspect or display their buds).

That would be terrible! Good thing I dont do or sell coke and my plants dont produce much so losses would be minimal for me.. Glass jars it is!

 

[BII]

That would be terrible! Good thing I dont do or sell coke and my plants dont produce much so losses would be minimal for me.. Glass jars it is!

OK. But losing a single "massive glass jar" of buds to breakage "would be terrible" too.

If using glass, borosilate (e.g., original PYREX) is presumed the best type, what's commonly used in chemistry labs and industry. It's more rugged, robust, less prone to shattering into many pieces if broken (can better recover material if a breakage), etc. vs. other types (including current Pyrex brand which is no longer borosilicate).

 

[Bruce Campbell]

But cleaning/washing won't remove what's still embedded in the plastics, hasn't off-gassed yet. The bottom line is there should simply be no odors with bags used to package and in contact with inhaled pharmaceutical products, and particularly bags used for curing, with getting desired natural odors a goal for most bag users.

I'd like to learn whether the bags (with and without odor) are 'safe,' meet common FDA food contact/use standards. I don't see that they need to be (bio)pharmaceutical grade, which is extreme in its requirements.

Only mention I found on their website was that the inks are FDA food-use approved. There was a mention that "our bags are better for storing cannabis than 'just food-grade' bags because our bags are designed for cannabis", but they never clearly state whether their bag materials are certified food grade or not.

If they did manufacture or sell them as "intended for pharmaceutical storage", I would expect them to at least have a lot number for traceability and recall purposes. Here's a list they have of state-by-state cannabis packaging regulations:

Cannabis Packaging Regulations and Labeling Guidelines for 2024 | Grove Bags

Cannabis packaging regulations and labeling guidelines depend on where you operate from - here's a guide to help!

grovebags.com

At least in my state, they would be currently classified as 'packaging for dietary supplements'. That's generally more food-grade than pharmaceutical-grade.

Overall, there's not really much on their website to convince me that their 'TerpLoc (TM) technology' is any different than what's sold on the market as a generic 'smell-proof mylar bag' (except, maybe, being manufactured in US). That said, I've been reusing the same grove bags for 3 years...

FWIW - found these marketing PDFs buried on their site. One is their 'best practices' guide, another is a summary of testing vs. mason jars. They don't mention the storage temperature for the tests, though. They could've increased temperature to accelerate the test, so the "10% difference vs. mason jars over 12 weeks" could take longer at normal storage temps.

 

[Frankthetank]

Overall, there's not really much on their website to convince me that their 'TerpLoc (TM) technology' is any different than what's sold on the market as a generic 'smell-proof mylar bag' (except, maybe, being manufactured in US). That said, I've been reusing the same grove bags for 3 years...

I’ve been using some generic knockoff grove bags I got off Amazon, and they’ve been just fine

 

[BII]

OK, the Grove Web site has links to relevant U.S. State regulations/standards, but not for all fully legal-to-grow and dispensary States, such as Maryland and Virginia. With such a crazy patchwork of regs, you have to wonder how and even whether a small company can fully comply with every State's regs (not stated that they do; otherwise the regs are for the local dispensaries to meet, not Grove in another State). Neither CA nor CO regs ever mention anything related to container or any chemical-related safety/toxicity requirements. Most users (including the dispensaries) likely assume that the bags, used to package inhaled pharmaceuticals (legal or not), at least meet dried food contact regulations.

This is why it would be good to know about whether (or not) the bags meet any of the basic nationwide FDA food, nutraceutical or other relevant technical safety standards.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

This is why it would be good to know about whether (or not) the bags meet any of the basic nationwide FDA food, nutraceutical or other relevant technical safety standards.

I agree, and I wouldn't mind seeing them post / list / state what standards they meet on their website. There's sometimes a difference between, e.g., using 'food-safe materials' vs. getting the final product 'certified as food-safe' (e.g., independently tested).

Either way, it's probably worth an email / PM to customer service to ask.

you have to wonder how and even whether a small company can fully comply with every State's regs

Short answer -

The first step is that they hire someone like me to go through all the regs and tell them what they should do. That usually means manufacturing for the most limiting / restrictive set of regulations so that you meet all the others. In this case, since some states require final flower to be packaged as dietary supplements, then it's reasonable to presume that grove bags are (or should be) manufactured to meet packaging requirements for dietary supplements (which, in turn, means food-safe). So, they may meet food-safe requirements even though they don't directly advertise it.

The second step, though, is usually arguing and fighting with me over whether or not they have to do what I recommended that they should be doing. That usually involves going to the lawyers out of context, who then come up with a legal justification for them not having to do (i.e., spend money) those things. So, no guarantee. I'm not bitter.

I spent a couple months working just down the street from grove. If you do reach out to them, tell 'em I'm looking for work

 

[BII]

I agree, and I wouldn't mind seeing them post / list / state what standards they meet on their website. There's sometimes a difference between, e.g., using 'food-safe materials' vs. getting the final product 'certified as food-safe' (e.g., independently tested).

Either way, it's probably worth an email / PM to customer service to ask.



Short answer -

The first step is that they hire someone like me to go through all the regs and tell them what they should do. That usually means manufacturing for the most limiting / restrictive set of regulations so that you meet all the others. In this case, since some states require final flower to be packaged as dietary supplements, then it's reasonable to presume that grove bags are (or should be) manufactured to meet packaging requirements for dietary supplements (which, in turn, means food-safe). So, they may meet food-safe requirements even though they don't directly advertise it.

The second step, though, is usually arguing and fighting with me over whether or not they have to do what I recommended that they should be doing. That usually involves going to the lawyers out of context, who then come up with a legal justification for them not having to do (i.e., spend money) those things. So, no guarantee. I'm not bitter.

I spent a couple months working just down the street from grove. If you do reach out to them, tell 'em I'm looking for work

Yes, Grove hiring a consultant and/or testing lab. to assess bag safety/toxicity would be good, but I don't think they need be concerned about all the States (and also other countries) safety-related regs (that's up to the actual regulated end users, such as dispensaries), and may not need a coordinating consultant. Rather Grove should simply address US-wide/interstate commerce/FDA regs (recognized as the relevant world "gold standard").

[Warning, getting into technicalities here: I think what's needed is rather straightforward such they don't need a consultant. Meeting chemical-based standards should be clear enough, pass or fail, and they shouldn't have to do safety/toxicology assessments or get other expert input. The company could do OK themselves directly hiring a suitable testing lab. for analytical studies, ideally one routinely testing biopharmaceutical grade plastics (besides the company tracing back the supply chains for all the materials it uses and getting all the relevant data/studies suppliers can provide; a task best at least overseen by an expert/consultant). The same testing labs. almost all have experts on staff to do safety/toxicology assessments, if actually needed here. For ex., surely testing labs. such as BioReliance/Millipore, Eurofins Lancaster Labs., Thermo Fisher, etc. could easily do the job.].

[Otherwise, I doubt Grove bags are common "generic 'smell-proof mylar bag" Smell-proof implies fully impermeable to most or all volatile organics and water vapor, while Grove bags selectively allow air/gasses, organics (e.g., undesired odors from curing) and water vapor to diffuse in and out at specific concentration equilibrium points. I presume the bags are high-tech, fully unique and proprietary to Grove].