Lighting Additional deep & far red LEDs & when to use them?

[Benjidubwise]

Greetings one & all.
I've heard some conflicting info on the use of deep & far red LEDs. The LED rig I've just bought from Invisible Sun came with an extra PCB for free (it was their birthday & were feeling generous). This free PCB comes in the form of a strip & consists of:
108 x LM301H (3000k)
4 x LH351H Deep Red
2 x LH351H Far Red
https://invisiblesunled.co.uk/collections/quantum-boards/products/ish-sun-strip

It will be used in conjunction with the Invisible Sun 240-H which is powered by 4 x PCBs comprised of cri80 Samsung lm301b in a mixture of 3000k and 6500k
(90 x samsung leds in 3000k
30 x samsung leds in 6500k)
https://invisiblesunled.co.uk/collections/diy-kits-custom-rigs/products/ish240-diy-kit

The ISH 240-H will be running off a Meanwell 240 watt driver & the IS R-strip will run off its own 60watt driver so they can be on separate timers & run independently.

My question is... When should the R-strip be on?

should I run it "20 on/4 off" like the main light? This would increase the overall power to 300watt from 240! or will the far reds cause stretching? . Should I run it purely during flower to give the plant an extra nudge during that critical time? should I run it with the main light during "morning & evening" to replicate the spectrum change during the day? or should I have it come on before the main light & let it stay on after the main light has gone off to gently "wake & put to bed". Considering it only has 4 x deep red & 2 x far red, will the spectrum actually make much difference?

I only have a small grow space. A 70x70(cm) tent. I'll be growing one large auto, organically & in soil.

*I posted something similar on the Invisible Sun thread but that was maybe too "tucked away" to be noticed so thought I'd ask a similar question here. Apologies if that's not the done thing. I've never really used forums before.

Thanks for any advice

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

Greetings one & all.
I've heard some conflicting info on the use of deep & far red LEDs. The LED rig I've just bought from Invisible Sun came with an extra PCB for free (it was their birthday & were feeling generous). This free PCB comes in the form of a strip & consists of:
108 x LM301H (3000k)
4 x LH351H Deep Red
2 x LH351H Far Red
https://invisiblesunled.co.uk/collections/quantum-boards/products/ish-sun-strip

It will be used in conjunction with the Invisible Sun 240-H which is powered by 4 x PCBs comprised of cri80 Samsung lm301b in a mixture of 3000k and 6500k
(90 x samsung leds in 3000k
30 x samsung leds in 6500k)
https://invisiblesunled.co.uk/collections/diy-kits-custom-rigs/products/ish240-diy-kit

The ISH 240-H will be running off a Meanwell 240 watt driver & the IS R-strip will run off its own 60watt driver so they can be on separate timers & run independently.

My question is... When should the R-strip be on?

should I run it "20 on/4 off" like the main light? This would increase the overall power to 300watt from 240! or will the far reds cause stretching? . Should I run it purely during flower to give the plant an extra nudge during that critical time? should I run it with the main light during "morning & evening" to replicate the spectrum change during the day? or should I have it come on before the main light & let it stay on after the main light has gone off to gently "wake & put to bed". Considering it only has 4 x deep red & 2 x far red, will the spectrum actually make much difference?

I only have a small grow space. A 70x70(cm) tent. I'll be growing one large auto, organically & in soil.

*I posted something similar on the Invisible Sun thread but that was maybe too "tucked away" to be noticed so thought I'd ask a similar question here. Apologies if that's not the done thing. I've never really used forums before.

Thanks for any advice

I would like to know the same thing! I am using my far red strip just during flowering and I have it coming on and turning off at the same time as my V2 boards

 

[Arthur]

Do some looking into the Emerson effect

 

[Benjidubwise]

@Arthur Many thanks for the link! I have just watched the video & can now claim to have a very flimsy grasp on the Emerson effect... very flimsy
One issue with "The Doc's" explanations is at the beginning of the video he talks about 3 different "types" (for want of a better word) of flowering plants:
Long Day Plants (flowers when days are long)
Short Day Plants (flowers when days are short)
I guess both of these could be considered photoperiods? Anyway, he goes on to explain the Emerson effect on both the photo period styles of plants & from what I can gather he suggests that, for "short day plants" (photoperiod cannabis for example), additional deep/far red light just before the end of the light cycle can encourage flowering.... very good.
However, he then briefly mentions "day neutral plants". Plants that aren't affected by the length of the day & flower when they are "ready". I'm guessing these could be considered auto flower plants? He doesn't go on to talk about the Emerson effect in regards to "day neutral" plants so I'm at a bit of a loss.

@ChroToker Have you run the same set up without the use of the far reds & if so, have you noticed a difference?

Does anyone have any experience messing about with deep/far reds during different stages of the growth cycle?

 

[Arthur]

I know just enough to get myself into trouble! Lots and lots of reading.

Am planning on adding some far red emitters towards the end of the year. Hoping to have a fair grasp by then.

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

@Arthur Many thanks for the link! I have just watched the video & can now claim to have a very flimsy grasp on the Emerson effect... very flimsy
One issue with "The Doc's" explanations is at the beginning of the video he talks about 3 different "types" (for want of a better word) of flowering plants:
Long Day Plants (flowers when days are long)
Short Day Plants (flowers when days are short)
I guess both of these could be considered photoperiods? Anyway, he goes on to explain the Emerson effect on both the photo period styles of plants & from what I can gather he suggests that, for "short day plants" (photoperiod cannabis for example), additional deep/far red light just before the end of the light cycle can encourage flowering.... very good.
However, he then briefly mentions "day neutral plants". Plants that aren't affected by the length of the day & flower when they are "ready". I'm guessing these could be considered auto flower plants? He doesn't go on to talk about the Emerson effect in regards to "day neutral" plants so I'm at a bit of a loss.

@ChroToker Have you run the same set up without the use of the far reds & if so, have you noticed a difference?

Does anyone have any experience messing about with deep/far reds during different stages of the growth cycle?

Unfortunately not, I only got the strip about 3 weeks ago but I want to know best practice for it for my next run.

 

[Benjidubwise]

I know just enough to get myself into trouble!

Isn't that always the case

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Benjidubwise]

Unfortunately not, I only got the strip about 3 weeks ago but I want to know best practice for it for my next run.

Keep us posted on how it goes! The brief bit of looking into it I I did makes me think it's maybe better to run reds for a short period at the end of the light cycle during flower. However, that R strip's deep & far reds are just a fraction of the LEDs on board so maybe it is just worth running it full time during flower...
How are you finding your main IS light? What power are you running it on & what distance from the canopy are you at?

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

Keep us posted on how it goes! The brief bit of looking into it I I did makes me think it's maybe better to run reds for a short period at the end of the light cycle during flower. However, that R strip's deep & far reds are just a fraction of the LEDs on board so maybe it is just worth running it full time during flower...
How are you finding your main IS light? What power are you running it on & what distance from the canopy are you at?

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

I'm loving the light! Never had such dense frosty buds, I am at full power and 12 inches from canopy but I'm running photoperiod plants so think they can handle more intensity.

 

[Tony21]

I too would like to know how to juggle the reds. I asked a seller of red waves a few weeks ago and was told "why don't you try 50 %", in wattage and not in time lol

Is it just me or does nobody actually KNOW with any certainty, except possibly companies like Osram /Fluence with that proprietary knowledge I keep hearing about, and most everybody else is selling red wavelengths with a finger up in the air?
Been thinking about getting 2 of these to supplement in a 70x150 area, or half of a tent https://www.rubol.nl/product/rubol-josephine-48w-rubol-red-far-red-plugplay-kit/
So if anyone has any qualified ideas about if this if too much, too little, a waste of time, bad spread as they are COB's, spectrum not quite right for Mr. Emersons effect, or whatever, I'm all ears

And how does reds affect DLI?