Grow Mediums HELP! D39. My 5th growth in row is failing. (1st with autopots) Yellowing TOP leaves. PH, zinc,iron, something else?

BII · Feb 20, 2023

I found AutoPots to be too much of a hassle and work. You have to continually deal with a central reservoir, tubing, valves, filters, air pumps (reservoir mixing; AirDomes if used), etc., also added costs, just to water a few plants!

They are useful if really needed, such as at larger scale, if need to leave plants unattended for days, etc. But with the similar setup and work involved, rather than AutoPots why not just do deep water culture?

Mañ'O'Green · Feb 20, 2023

Let me be sure you understand what I mean by Flush in Coco. Use a 50% strength balanced PHed nutrient mix (50% of what you are feeding at the time). Fertigate fairly rapidly until you get back at least 50% of what you are putting in the pot. 50% is the minimum it is ok for it to be more. The whole idea is to get ions that stick to coco to come out. Gallon in 1/2 Gallon out. 2 gallons in 1 gallon out. You do not need to worry about coco drying out before doing it in fact you do not want coco to ever dry out. What you do want is called dry back where air is drawn in to the root zone. the coco remains moist throughout.

BipolarBear91 · Feb 21, 2023

Mañ'O'Green said:
Let me be sure you understand what I mean by Flush in Coco. Use a 50% strength balanced PHed nutrient mix (50% of what you are feeding at the time). Fertigate fairly rapidly until you get back at least 50% of what you are putting in the pot. 50% is the minimum it is ok for it to be more. The whole idea is to get ions that stick to coco to come out. Gallon in 1/2 Gallon out. 2 gallons in 1 gallon out. You do not need to worry about coco drying out before doing it in fact you do not want coco to ever dry out. What you do want is called dry back where air is drawn in to the root zone. the coco remains moist throughout.

Yes, that is the plan.
Will also topwater for a few days, see how it reacts.

What is still a little bugging me - and I see this a lot on "plant infirmamy" posts but it goes against basic theory I have read?

Why do I have a magnesim deficiency?

My LOWER leaves are green,too green..
And magnesium should start from bottom, no...?

Mañ'O'Green · Feb 21, 2023

BipolarBear91 said:
Yes, that is the plan.
Will also topwater for a few days, see how it reacts.

What is still a little bugging me - and I see this a lot on "plant infirmamy" posts but it goes against basic theory I have read?

Why do I have a magnesim deficiency?

My LOWER leaves are green,too green..
And magnesium should start from bottom, no...?

It is locked out - looks like a deficiency. we just want to have some extra in the pot when the balance is restored. The idea that things start at the top or bottom just does not suite every plant.

You also have signs of P lock-out as well.

That real dark forest green is from too much nitrogen and just may be from too much everything as well. Without a chemical analysis of the leaves we have to do considerable guess work. That is why the color rendering is so important to me. Your leaves are showing classic P & Mg deficiency but we both know there is plenty in the pot so that leaves a lock-out as the next logical cause. The thing is too much K or Ca can cause it or both. I am thinking maybe both because of the luxury N look. Luxury levels of N happen just before toxic levels are reached.

Autos just do not need as much as photos and overfeeding is common.

BipolarBear91 · Feb 21, 2023

BII said:
I found AutoPots to be too much of a hassle and work. You have to continually deal with a central reservoir, tubing, valves, filters, air pumps (reservoir mixing; AirDomes if used), etc., also added costs, just to water a few plants!

They are useful if really needed, such as at larger scale, if need to leave plants unattended for days, etc. But with the similar setup and work involved, rather than AutoPots why not just do deep water culture?

After my first 10+plants died and I wondered and wondered what can be the cause. I got RO water, but 4 plants finished weak (but they seemed healthier, so it was progress)

Thus, enter autopot. I even said "minimal lst" , just let them grow, Autopot will feed the plants when they need it. I will not be there creeping around and messing everything up

And now I got to day 35 without a single issues, my record

Also - its noise. Tent is 6 feet from my bed, inlin fan is sound insulated etc.

With my very limited understanding of dwc, I get the idea that there is always some kind of pump running.

However, I have heard of top feed (DTW) options, where I basically run the feeding pump only for coupl of mins very day and not feed during 8 hours of sleep.

BipolarBear91 · Feb 21, 2023

Mañ'O'Green said:
It is locked out - looks like a deficiency. we just want to have some extra in the pot when the balance is restored. The idea that things start at the top or bottom just does not suite every plant.

You also have signs of P lock-out as well.

That real dark forest green is from too much nitrogen and just may be from too much everything as well. Without a chemical analysis of the leaves we have to do considerable guess work. That is why the color rendering is so important to me. Your leaves are showing classic P & Mg deficiency but we both know there is plenty in the pot so that leaves a lock-out as the next logical cause. The thing is too much K or Ca can cause it or both. I am thinking maybe both because of the luxury N look. Luxury levels of N happen just before toxic levels are reached.

View attachment 1567516

Autos just do not need as much as photos and overfeeding is common.

Thank you for detailed explanation.
Must be tough with situations like mine: Several deficiencies, and I just want to know "why,how" and I do not realize how much information there is actually and how much you would have to write to explain everything.
You have answered all of my questions and I will try to save the girls.

I came to like coco. You can screw a lot up and just flush it

Seems more forgiving for beginners, if you have the time/automation for watering

Cannaficionado · Feb 21, 2023

BipolarBear91 said:
Thank you for detailed explanation.
Must be tough with situations like mine: Several deficiencies, and I just want to know "why,how" and I do not realize how much information there is actually and how much you would have to write to explain everything.
You have answered all of my questions and I will try to save the girls.

I came to like coco. You can screw a lot up and just flush it Seems more forgiving for beginners, if you have the time/automation for watering

Mog is the man

BipolarBear91 · Feb 21, 2023

@BII @St. Tom @Cannaficionado @Bill.de.Cat

Guys I flushed my 15 litre autopot with 35 liters of 300 ppm 6ph water (150 ppm base + 150 ppm nutes) HANNAH scale (0.5)

Before the flush they were feeding for a week from a reservoir of 5.7PH and 750 PPM

Flush results:
1) First 5 liters of runoff were 6.2ph and 500 ppm
2) Last 5 liters of runoff was 330 ppm and 6ph (Almost identical to my flush input solution)

Does this tell something? I was kind of expecting (in case I have a lockout), that runoff will be much much higher ppm/ec

Thanks!

St. Tom · Feb 21, 2023

BipolarBear91 said:
@BII @St. Tom @Cannaficionado @Bill.de.Cat

Guys I flushed my 15 litre autopot with 35 liters of 300 ppm 6ph water (150 ppm base + 150 ppm nutes) HANNAH scale (0.5)

Before the flush they were feeding for a week from a reservoir of 5.7PH and 750 PPM

Flush results:
1) First 5 liters of runoff were 6.2ph and 500 ppm
2) Last 5 liters of runoff was 330 ppm and 6ph (Almost identical to my flush input solution)

Does this tell something? I was kind of expecting (in case I have a lockout), that runoff will be much much higher ppm/ec

Thanks!

When they have been bottom fed the run off won't really tell you much bro :smoking:but moving forwards now it's just a case of keeping her on track feeding to run off

Mañ'O'Green · Feb 21, 2023

BipolarBear91 said:
@BII @St. Tom @Cannaficionado @Bill.de.Cat

Guys I flushed my 15 litre autopot with 35 liters of 300 ppm 6ph water (150 ppm base + 150 ppm nutes) HANNAH scale (0.5)

Before the flush they were feeding for a week from a reservoir of 5.7PH and 750 PPM

Flush results:
1) First 5 liters of runoff were 6.2ph and 500 ppm
2) Last 5 liters of runoff was 330 ppm and 6ph (Almost identical to my flush input solution)

Does this tell something? I was kind of expecting (in case I have a lockout), that runoff will be much much higher ppm/ec

Thanks!

Well, Yes and No...... You have no way to know what was in that 500PPM coming out. Run-off is a poor indicator of what is actually happening in the pot although in hydro the information can be useful to determine trends. Roots of the plant will exude chemicals that change the PH of the root biome. It does this to tell the microbes to make more or less P-K available to the plant. Yes there is a microbe biome even in DWC. The microbes work overnight to make these ions so the plant can uptake them as soon as transpiration begins in the morning. This is why you do not want to start fertigation until after transpiration has started one or two hours after lights on. If you start fertigating too soon you wash these ions out of the root zone. In a well managed coco grow this is not as critical as in soil because theoretically our nutrient blend has these ions available anyhow, that said GroDan (Rock Wool) preaches never to fertigate prior to transpiration!

What comes out of the pot is not as critical as what goes in. If you PH properly going in the nutrients will be available to the plant.

I am always happy to add my :2cents:

to a grower asking questions. I don't have all of the answers and new science comes out every day. So read what others say, research, question everything and take it all into consideration then decide on a path forward After all you are the farmer!

:toke:

Grow Mediums HELP! D39. My 5th growth in row is failing. (1st with autopots) Yellowing TOP leaves. PH, zinc,iron, something else?

BII

.

Mañ'O'Green

Kia ora. Retired to watch the grass grow.

BipolarBear91

BipolarBear91

Mañ'O'Green

Kia ora. Retired to watch the grass grow.

BipolarBear91

Hotfire

BipolarBear91

Cannaficionado

Novice

BipolarBear91

St. Tom

chillin like a villain

Mañ'O'Green

Kia ora. Retired to watch the grass grow.

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