F | T |F Growery: Ace Seeds Limited Editions+Optic Foliar Testing

Now technically Zamaldelica x Kali China isn't a limited edition anymore but it was lol.



Equipment -

• MegaCrop 2.? and additives​
• 5x5x6.5​
• Bridgelux EB2 3000k with 480w meanwell​
• Flood and drain table​
• 55 gallon resevoir​
• Growpito/Beneficials​

Start tagging people

@RivetGrrl @Waira @Dudeski @Master_gRoshi @Illini4life @TxRebel/Mark @Ribbzzy @Shiva's Mistress @BISCUITS @TheMongol @Dudeski

Just getting pictures in here.

Transplanted and top/bottom watered to moisten the Sim mix. Below is my spice cabinet and the ladies in waiting. Foliar of 5:2 fulvic/kelp, Monopotassium Phosphate, b vitamins, and fish hydrolysate at a 4.0ph.

Lights are up high at around 40 inches while they get acclimated to the light. Doesn't look like anything special right now.

One of the Zamaldelica clones is not going to make it so I have taken 12 extra clones in an effort to fill the tent. A little annoyed but my pH meter was out of calibration and caused me problems.



So I have 12 clones in the veg tent letting the light reflect from the bottom shelf with a dome on. It has been 2 days for them already with no wilting. On a brighter note the Oriental Express x Nepal Jam are just about done rooting so I can cut up the plants that originally came from seed and transplant them to the flower tent. I also have two extra clones of this strain that are backups for the Zamaldelica.

I hate growing in an empty tent so I hope I have everything ready within two weeks. There have been a bunch of cloning issues that I detail in the blog entry below under Round 2 of Cloning.

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So far everything has settled in except for one ZxK but I have time.

I can now use my 6 Oriental Express x Nepal Jam - A clone of #1/2 and the 4 seeds further referred to as #1-4 - so they'll be transplanted some time next week or after.

There are 12, 13 really, ZxK clones in the veg tent with no wilting. The plan is basically to get the remaining clones rooted and moved to the flower tent then going straight to flower. I will be filling every pot that isn't at 4 plants hopefully and done. Not really particular about the height of everything with the way these lights perform but I would like the table filled.

Looks like crap now - might still look like crap later


Everything has been hit with a foliar of Fulvic, kelp, fish hydrolysate, b vitamins, and a bit of Monopotassium Phosphate with yucca.

Aside from ZxK clone that was pulled everything is fine. The ugly clones are growing again since the pH was corrected. Had an Extrema clone begin growth again after 3 weeks of dormancy from the pH issues.




The other ZxK clones in the veg tent are doing really well. Feeling like an idiot as my entire issue may have been too much light.



Tomorrow I'll give them their first flood. The OxN and BxP were topped to let the shorter clones catch up and even out some ugly growth. I'll probably go in on the MC at a .5EC, additives for a .3EC, and some .4EC tap water. No waste water as always and I won't be mentioning my environment.



The four OxN had to have their roots separated before going in. Nerves.



Tagging @AltheGardener he likes landraces

Not much going on. They were flooded two days ago and hit with a foliar yesterday.

The two BxP clones directly in the middle are a bit worrisome but everything else is either improving or doing fine.

The clones are still very healthy looking but it's been around 5 days or so. End of the week they will hopefully be ready but I'd rather fill the tray.

Scienceinhydroponics.com is an excellent resource and I've found some amazing articles there. So I will at some point begin making my own nutrients rather than relying on the consistency of Greenleaf Nutrients.

Now that I have clients I want to get more serious on the automation and efficiency but that is expensive.

Busy day but I have some issues, some new product, and a lot to write out.


2 spray bottles of Overgrow
1 bottle of Switch
1 bottle of Atak, Rev, Watts
2 bottles of Transport
Stickers
Info pamphlet

My hope is that using the Overgrow will correct the issues I'm seeing in the BxP strains. I also believe that due to the pH issues before transplant I should have kept top watering. I did add more to the top today but we'll see.

Otherwise they plants are quite healthy and the clones have had their dome removed since it's almost a week. Some slight wilting occurred but I had added a bit of water. They were hit with Overgrow as well as the mothers and the flower tent.

Flood went in at 1.5EC and 5.8ph & out at 1.5EC and 6.0ph.

How fare the clones I ask. Pretty good looking so far. I lost 2/12 but I only need 9. I decided to use the two clones of the OxN and fill another pot as I'm sure I'll have plenty of ZxK.

It's been 3 days since the first application of Overgrow but I've seen no difference in the mothers so far. Many of them need a transplant at this point from those 2 inch pots but I haven't made the time yet. Turned the light on for the clones under the dome as I'm pretty confident they have rooted.



It's conjecture at this point but I do think the Overgrow may have improved them. The mothers need to be trimmed, the Extrema in particular, while the others will get defoliated. The small ZxK mother - I hate those round plastic pots - and the Mendo Breath need to be switched to a fabric pot. I think they are getting root bound and I'm tired of trimming their roots. I have not had to trim the roots of the ZxK or Extrema mother in the fabric pots. Maybe I'll order some radicle bags.


The plants in the flower tent are iffy. The pot at the far left of ZxK is acting unhappy, the BxP in the middle all have minor issues - mostly what looks like chlorosis - but I'm seeing green return slowly. The pH issue really messed me up but I'm hoping this Overgrow will get everything fixed up by transplant day.




They were flooded at 1.5/1.5 EC and 6.0/6.2 ph so the next flood will be at 1.5 EC and 5.5ph - I'm not feeding them particularly strong, a .8EC of MC and .3 of additives, but the pH really messed everything up.

Transplants were done yesterday with more Overgrow applied. Not really happy with them though as only 1 clone had visible roots. I'm beginning to think the issue is my tap water in general. I've located a 4 stage RO for $90 off of Amazon that does 50 gallons per day.

Clones are limp and covered with pots until they acclimate to the light some more. Not much else for me to do as they'll either live or die by this time next week.

Done my best to correct issues and ran over 40 gallons over the pots at a 5.5ph and 1.5EC - going to conclude that the pH caused excess salt

Zamaldelica really trucking along except the pot at the back. Bangi Congo still looking bad but can't fix messed up leaves. Oriental Express is doing well so no concerns. They'll go to flower later today.

No pictures for this update.

Since I started flower at day 14 I was continually disturbed by the lack of growth and that no matter the Foliar or what I tried to correct pH wise I was still having issues. Last ditch effort was to flush.

So after the last grow I didn't do anything for a month in the pots - they began to dry out and salt build up got excessive. My mentor keeps his Sim mix constantly hydrated in a dark container and I believe that was my issue. I actually began to suspect that my tap water was the culprit but it led me to discover low cost 4 Membrane RO systems. I'll be considering one for future grows just to eliminate variables.

After flushing a .5EC of solution through 60 gallons of Growpito everything improved. Mostly because over half the pots were coming out at a 2.5 - 3.5 EC and everything had stalled except the Zamaldelica minus one pot. This was also part of my issue with cloning times rather than pH but also trying to root in 82+ temps really messed things up.

Lessons learned and the new EC is at a 1.0 but I will be lowering it a bit more to spray Switch.

Looks like all but two clones will survive. I altered my plans a bit and threw in two more well developed Oriental Express x Nepal Jam clones for good measure.

Looks like the stretch has begun just a bit but we'll see how much they were stalled. Optic Foliar Overgrow was applied again and at day 7 I will be applying Switch. I love how there hasn't been a residue using the Overgrow and it dries pretty quickly.

Everything started ugly but it's slowly being repaired and I expect a bountiful and eye pleasing harvest lol.

I'll knock out the OF experience with Switch real quick.

Mixing was easy and I began the treatment an hour after lights on with my IR gun reading 75f on the leaf surface. Didn't have a nasty smell or anything but coated the leaves very well and was gone by the time I had finished flooding and editing. Well see how it goes. Per their instructions I set my EC to .5 with a 5.5 pH plus the cool temps.



Thankfully the flush was a success coming out with the exact same input. I knew my clones were a lost cause but I wanted to fill the tray however only a few really took while realistically they weren't ready to be flowered.

Can't fix damage leaves so there is still some unappealing growth but new growth has been perfect. Using Adobe Light Room for mobile to edit pictures and watermark, not that I think it's necessary, but overall pleased with the app.

The Zamaldelica row is a success so far and will hopefully be an excellent SOG strain. The Bangi Congo x Panama were the most impacted by the EC and pH issues so growth has been thin but improving with more color. Oriental Express x Nepal Jam has done exceedingly well with short internodes and minimal stretching all around from every strain.

One more treatment of Switch and several more of Overgrow but I'll reserve any real opinion of the product.

Trying to improve my pictures as I have several folders with 300+ images and but every shot is acceptable imo.

Those Zamaldelica leaves are large though. Won't be doing any sacrilegious defoliation - some super cropping but not much else - SCing is more than I intended but this isn't a true SOG so IDC

Applied Overgrow again and the next Foliar will be Switch in a few days then I'll see how much more I care.

Pistols are rapidly appearing with very little Vegetative growth. Zamaldelica has filled it's pots completely and is pleasing to the eye lol. They are going to make a beautiful SOG the next run.

Bangi Congo is - not really sure, stems are thinner but no real opinion or conclusions have been made yet.

Orient Express is doing quite well though one of the mothers in the veg tent began throwing pistols. I'm not fond of finicky plants so hopefully that pheno isn't a favorite. I've found a decent amount of consistency with Ace so far, especially in the Malawi x Panama, but the Zamaldelica x Kali China wasn't something I got to sample more than two phenos of. Just so happened to find an amazing keeper.

They have had another flood and the EC/pH issues are fixed. I'll be adding some phosphorus/Potassium after the next foliar of switch. They haven't received a 1.0EC quite yet, closer to .5 until I was done with the Switch applications but I added humic/kelp for the time being.

Applied the final treatment of Switch.

No particular thoughts at the moment but the stretch wasn't long or as crazy as usual. Most of the nodes have a distance of .5 - 2"

Seeing some leaf abscission almost exclusive to the Bangi Congo x Panama but no issues. I doubt there is a deficiency just old growth that was damaged finally dying off. A bit of it on a small Zamaldelica x Kali China clone that struggled from the previous issues.

Orient Express x Nepal Jam #2/3/4 is promising on at least two phenos however the #2 Bangi Congo is not a great contender. #3/4 look to be great contenders though. Not a true pheno hunt but I'm mostly basing my initial choices on how well they withstand mistakes, vigor, and eventually quality of the end product. Yield is a very low priority compared to a robust high with flavor and aroma.

Father's day was great - still haven't received unemployment but I did get my EBT benefits - two kids and a wife to feed. Unemployment needs to hurry up since... Piece of shit Meanwell driver went dead - nothing to do about it but throw my 600w HPS up

I have the three HLG 185 drivers but I either lose 130 watts over drive the strips over efficiency at 555 watts to 12 strips. Don't really give a shit about fuck to rewire 4 lights and be left without anything for my mothers. 600w cooltube it is.

The Meanwell 480h 42a is dead, no voltage, no current but a seven year warranty on a brand of driver I don't really want now. It's been almost two years running this driver for it go out after spending so much. I'll eventually build my tunable spectrum lights and transition everything to Inventronics - more feature rich and a standard in the US

The driver pissed me off so much I got exceedingly pissed off and only took one picture. So now I have to contact Arrow and see if they will honor the warranty then wait for them to ship it while I'm stuck with this hot ass HPS. I think my mentor has a spare 315 CMH but I have an amazing Bridgelux fixture with no power source

The Optic Foliar seems like some good stuff so far though. I have some yellowing on the Bangi Congo x Panama strains but it looks to be nitrogen but otherwise green lushness and goodness and OMG terps are coming out! It's a stinky mess in there like I have never smelled before. I'd possibly consider making OF a staple in my spice cabinet if this run is successful.

I may be running a 600w HPS but I won't be engaging in that defoliation blasphemy! I really like growing below 80f the smells are just heavenly funk. Not sure what I'll do about pictures unless I get a replacement driver expeditiously. Do my best though

I can't get my usual photos with the current light so idk what I'll do. Videos from IG for now.

Everything is going great. Table is looking filled out but the BCP is having a nitrogen deficiency at the moment. Added some extra K with MC running at .5EC humic/kelp/fish hydrolysate/Monopotassium Phosphate/yucca. Beneficials too

Still applying Overgrow and my total EC is at 1.0 with no tip burn. Very pleased the table has filled out sufficiently despite not hitting my desired SOG numbers. Retrograde has been hell though but hasn't reflected in my plants just my rants

Not much going on but 40is days to do. Can't post process under this light and hopefully Digikey can expedite a new driver out. Running out of pH down for my 8.1 water - might have to shut everything down if unemployment takes too long.

My driver has arrived! Free expedited shipping and a free replacement. No more crappy pictures.

Anyways, still applying Overgrow and it seems the N issue is over finally. Aromas are finally developing however at this point the Bangi Congo x Panama has a pretty uniform smell while the Orient Express x Nepal Jam is pretty varied. Coffee aromas from my dear Zamaldelica but much sooner compared to my burnt run.

I'll buy some sulfuric acid soon to make my own pH down but I would love to try the torushydro pH thing linked in the comments below and save some money. Enjoy the pictures!

Just a video this time around. Not much to do or say for a few weeks. I have been steadily applying Overgrow every 2-3 days.

The Bangi Congo x Panama is finicky losing leaves still, pheno#2 is piss poor but I'm hoping for a keeper - somewhere.... Trich production isn't really pronounced.

Love the Zamaldelica but it has a high leaf:calyx ratio. Trich production is happening like usual. Some weird issues on the leaves but I can't say whether it's concerning or not.

Orient Express x Nepal Jam is producing trichs and might finish before the other two. They smell good, look good, and a 50/50 chance one of the phenos will be one of the mothers I kept.



Here are some pics of my outdoor garden.

The first run with this Zamaldelica pheno finished in around 9 weeks. I'm always amazed at the high leaf to calyx ratio with this clone and it just sneaks into flowering compared to the other strains that proudly display their pistils so quickly. The last time I had some pH and nutrient issues so I wasn't able to witness the oiliness or the strong scent.

The Bangi Congo was a bit finicky up to this point with nitrogen but all of them minus one pheno are incredibly resilient with a lot of uniformity in bouquet and growth. I was incredibly excited for this particular strain from the onset though based on everything and I really love the long pistils, reminds me of the Malawi x Panama. Hard to forget my first love lol

I'm guessing I was a bit high when I chose the Orient Express x Nepal Jam as I fail to remember why I chose it. I was able to get the pheno that began flowering at 18/6 to throw side branches after topping her, the clone in flower right now has short internodes and looks to be a dense lady. I like all the phenos as far as growth but the early flower and the large one pictured have my attention and their mothers are thriving.

Some trichomes shots and a few pictures. Density is highest on Zamaldelica x Kali China but the pistil hairs on the Bangi Congo x Panama are very long.

Colas are quite long in general on the Bangi Congo x Panama. I'm guessing these all will go near 60 days but I may run the Zamaldelica a bit longer to 70.

Larger Zamaldelica clone and a few of the Orient Express started getting deficient, bumped the EC up for the moment with extra Fish hydrolysate and Potassium. Mega Crop went hygroscopic on me so I had to make small concentrated batches that were a pain. I think Jack's may be my best bet until I start formulating my own nutrients. Really liked Prescription Blend but I prefer dry powders.

Trying to do better about identifying strains in the pics but switching from Lightroom then to a text app takes time.

Buds are fattening a bit but the Bangi Congo x Panama #2 pheno is very poor, 4 clones all failing to thrive compared to the other phenos.

Zamaldelica x Kali China is fattening up and doing everything it did the first time around, just better.

Orient Express x Nepal Jam has been solid to getting so far with every pheno doing very well. #3 and #2 seen to be the best with nice bud structures.

Cleaned the reservoir - had to use vinegar for a few weeks - and made a few gallons of pH down with sulphuric acid. Works well for the cost. The way everything is looking around 60-70 days will probably work out great. I do miss the smoke from Zamaldelica but I need something a bit speedier so hopefully the Bangi Congo can do it. No photos just a video today.

Everything is looking really good.

Zamaldelica x Kali China is growing well compared to last time with dense trichomes. Large fan leaves of the Kali China but I'm not sure of the bouquet. Buds are filling out and getting think. I always love the development of the lower buds that did not lack last time.

Bangi Congo x Panama in very Panama dominate with foxtails and really long pistils. Beautiful thin leaves. I may just find a keeper.

Orient Express x Nepal Jam is fragrant, very sweet and sticky. Good amount of trichomes and these seem to lean towards sativa much more. Height is very manageable.

The fade is coming on strong so I'm guessing another week or two. The Zamaldelica leaves are large going slowly but steady.

Starting to spread out the flood cycles. They have slowed down drinking and the EC has been lowered back to a 1.0. Added molasses for the final few floods.

Tried shooting images in RAW and editing but they feel washed out.

Sampled all of them this past week but only the Zamaldelica had a really pronounced effect but it needs a two month cure. The Bangi Congo has familiar Panama aromas. Smells are getting stronger in general though I hope to see more swelling.

I'm thinking a week, maybe two, but it's almost done for the Orient Express x Nepal Jam and Bangi Congo x Panama. Leaves are all fading and the aromas are getting more diverse. Colas really fattened and the OExNP is very sticky.

Not all of the Zamaldelica x Kali China are fading at the same rate so lessons learned on cloning. Definitely going for larger cuts to get the most I can from these. Breeder informed me the the ZxK seems all Kali China with no Zamaldelica. Smells like rotten fruit and coffee

Bangi Congo x Panama really surprised me, especially pheno #2 that has bud down the stem. I think there were 6 clones of that pheno, four did not do well but the other two turned out very well. Some great incense and musk smells.

My review of Optic Foliar.

I received the full line of products to test from Dinesh over at OF. I used Overgrow the most throughout the grow until week 4 of flower. Per instructions I used Switch once at day 10 and then again at day 17. I observed what I believe to be fast absorption on leaf surfaces but I can't be entirely sure that was what was occurring.

As much as I like the thought behind Switch one of my clones of Bangi Congo x Panama #2, of which 6 clones were present, ended up seeding itself thus far. Only three of these clones performed well while 3 others struggled however it was one of the healthiest of #2 that seeded.

My other issue with Switch are the conditions, below 79F and 15 minute of application, that had summer been hotter would not have been possible. Otherwise keeping internodes shorter, preventing hermies, and setting flowering earlier were bonuses. I did see less stretch in the a Zamaldelica x Kali China but finishing time and bud side weren't particularly different.

So while I appreciate the opportunity to test the product I'm not sure how much more effective anything offered, aside from Switch, was compared to other foliar methods. Even so, I'm not sure how effective Switch or really the entire lineup is after doing only one cycle with it.

I wonder if much of the same couldn't be accomplished, if anything was accomplished, with biostimulants, yucca, micronutrients, and the addition of silica. It's an investment if I choose to add this to my other products. Overall I give it a 2.5/5 because I can't really gauge the effectiveness plus an all fem clone cycle was seeded and I can't say whether Switch had any impact as well.

Click to expand...

Well this is the end, my Optic Foliar Review is on another page, and compared to where I started things out well. Ended up with plenty of feedback from dubi at Ace Seeds and the possibility of two more mothers.



I'll start with the Bangi Congo x Panama.





Very beautiful and easy plant to grow for the most part with long colas, pistils, and a fade of black from it's Bangi Congo lineage. Out of four phenos, #4 proved to be an oddball with small colas and just smaller overall lacking vigor. It was the lowest yielding, visually, of all the plants.

#2 may be a keeper despite seeding itself on one clone and needing more nitrogen than any of the other phenos. Aromas were pretty uniform and sticky buds. Foxtailing was strong in the last two weeks with some 2 inch ones here and there. Buds are moderately dense but not something excessive and leaves were thin. The #2 pheno was observed with calyx formation down to the bottom of the stalk.

Overall buds were fairly uniform with hints of black and resinous. After the cure I won't be surprised if #2 isn't the new mother.

Orient Express x Nepal Jam



This was a very uniform cultivar with the dark orange pistils with the real difference being in the bouquet. Ranging from sweet to earthy with moderate branching and a fast finish.

Overall this cultivar gave me no issues the entire time and #2 is likely to be my mother is based off growth and aroma alone. It was very easy to grow and with a good cure may earn a place in my garden for the future.

Zamaldelica x Kali China



Not nearly as much to say, that the blog link for the journal has not said, as I've grown this before. It definitely will benefit from larger clones in the future SOG.

Learned a bit about the consistency of cuts for clones but I plan to do more SOG cycles with larger amounts in the future. Pictures below and thank you for following.

Harvest was alright though my best are when the tent is packed full.

Total weight - 333g

Bangi Congo x Panama - 98g - #2 yielded 22g on one plant

Orient Express x Nepal Jam - 124g - #2 yielded 35g on one plant

Zamaldelica x Kali China - 111g