Watts per sq ft. How many watts in your grow space

I’ve been doing 24 seven until mid stretch then 20/4 through flower...This will be my first run with the red PCB rings as I only use them the last two weeks of flower on my last plants.
 
Yes, C3 plants can maintain photo synthesis 24/7. the fact that they can does not prove that 24/7 is the best way to grow however and there is a lot more going on within the plant than just photosynthesis. I'll spend the time to find again, a study done in Russia about 2-3 years ago that indicated a period of darkness was beneficial to cannabis plants. When i find it, I'll post the link. In the mean time, we all can find 50 sites that agree and 50 that don't... its an ongoing debate. Also, nothing I've read on the Calvin Cycle or C3 plants indicates one way or the other what an optimal photoperiod is.
Science can't help us cause science can't agree on the definition of a good plant and neither can we. It's like the discussion of the best light spectrum, it will allways reduce to junk cause we can't agree on the definition of the best plant or the best grow. It's all fine cause I can learn how the plant grow and grow it how I want. We should all just move on from the notion of that the best way exist and talk about how the changes we can do will change the plant's life and in the end the harvested medicine. I have 30 watt per sqft, maybe 35-40 with the fans included but I want to double it. I prefer to keep the lights on all the time cause the plants don't grow in darkness and that means the fans are wasting electricity for no growth. I prefer to mess with other variables, nutrients, humidity, temperature, soil moisture, wind speed and light intensity. I train the plant and lower the lights for increased light intensity or raise them for even distribution.
 
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Science can't help us cause science can't agree on the definition of a good plant and neither can we. It's like the discussion of the best light spectrum, it will allways reduce to junk cause we can't agree on the definition of the best plant or the best grow. It's all fine cause I can learn how the plant grow and grow it how I want. We should all just move on from the notion of that the best way exist and talk about how the changes we can do will change the plant's life and in the end the harvested medicine. I have 30 watt per sqft, maybe 35-40 with the fans included but I want to double it. I prefer to keep the lights on all the time cause the plants don't grow in darkness and that means the fans are wasting electricity for no growth. I prefer to mess with other variables, nutrients, humidity, temperature, soil moisture, wind speed and light intensity. I train the plant and lower the lights for increased light intensity or raise them for even distribution.
Since bad plants are in the majority, indoor growers; and some outdoor growers too, have long forgotten what a cannabis plant actually look like growing in the sun light. I have never seen one with dark leaves. Nor have I seen one reaching up to the sun. Leaf damage, stretching And the lightening /darkening of the leaves are all sings of an improperly grown plant. We blame the strain, the feed. We blame it on temps. Not to mention, We are quick to blame the lights. @BigSm0 who I owe an apology. I accused his autocobs of causing my plants that are closer to the light , to lighten up. I promise you that the cobs didn’t cause this, because I have plant even closer to the light that are not getting lighter. The bottom line is that grower error is the cause of 99.9% of plant problems. I did that, not the autocobs. Shouts out to @BigSmO one more time for revolutionizing grow lights with his autocobs. The sad part is, most growers don’t have the skills to get the full benefits of the auto cob nor the autoflower.
 

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2x4x4 closet grow (32 cubic feet)
2 x 135 true watt leds ( 1,000 watt triple chip full spectrum H&Grow)
1 x 45 true watt( amazon full spectrum led )
6 x 11 watt supplemental side lighting led's
a total of 381 true watts for a total of 11.90625 watts per cubic foot.
 
That's the thing though. Everyone has an opinion. At the very least I'd like to pick the brain of a horticulturalist or plant sciences major to have a reasonable discussion.

On one hand we have people basically saying that Ruderalis can metabolize 24/7 whereas science says important processes occur during the dark period. Is Ruderalis really getting 24/0 in it's natural environment or does light spectrum+intensity play a role in the semblance of 24/0 lighting? Is the plant seeing 24/7 light that it can photosynthesize?
Ruderalis is not getting 24/7 in nature as they have dark and foggy days that will count as a dark cycle...like having the red and far red light on only for grow......which many use for extended hours of flower. 14/10 (dark cycle)...if you look at wild ruderalis you will see many forms..but most i see are squat but stretched with far internodal patterns......really not much budlike matter....now we crossed it..wanting those big colas....did ruderalis lighting provide this before? no....which is why i feel during veg to go 24/7 but in flower to 20/4, 18/6...to go along with those photo characteristics...where that girth and swell will take place for that photo sized female parts
#dawgthoughts
#growerspreference
 
Ruderalis is not getting 24/7 in nature as they have dark and foggy days that will count as a dark cycle...like having the red and far red light on only for grow......which many use for extended hours of flower. 14/10 (dark cycle)...if you look at wild ruderalis you will see many forms..but most i see are squat but stretched with far internodal patterns......really not much budlike matter....now we crossed it..wanting those big colas....did ruderalis lighting provide this before? no....which is why i feel during veg to go 24/7 but in flower to 20/4, 18/6...to go along with those photo characteristics...where that girth and swell will take place for that photo sized female parts
#dawgthoughts
#growerspreference

This is partially my thought process and why I think 18/6 with enough intensity and a custom spectral recipe is the key. With them being stretched with long internodes it sounds like shade avoidance but I'm fine being wrong lol.

I think blasting a high ppfd with a static spectrum is why BigSmo has a winning recipe with his autocobs with autoflowers whereas if spectrums could be tuned a higher ppfd in a shorter cycle could be achieved. Plants do the most growing in the dark, not everyone runs 30+ watts so I can see a less intense yet longer cycle being beneficial.

Let's take your theory of light cycling, mix in tunable spectrums from 2700-6500k, high ppfd or 30+ watts per sqft. and I believe magic might happen. Bridgelux, California Lightworks, Samsung, Osram, and @Scynce Grown all produce tunable spectrum lights. Ruderalis doesn't receive a static spectrum like 3000k for 24 hours a day, could possibly be the reason people believe outdoor weed is superior to indoor, rather it gets a a spectrum of spectrums throughout the day and season. Surely that influences terpenes, hormones, auxins, etc.
 
This is partially my thought process and why I think 18/6 with enough intensity and a custom spectral recipe is the key. With them being stretched with long internodes it sounds like shade avoidance but I'm fine being wrong lol.

I think blasting a high ppfd with a static spectrum is why BigSmo has a winning recipe with his autocobs with autoflowers whereas if spectrums could be tuned a higher ppfd in a shorter cycle could be achieved. Plants do the most growing in the dark, not everyone runs 30+ watts so I can see a less intense yet longer cycle being beneficial.

Let's take your theory of light cycling, mix in tunable spectrums from 2700-6500k, high ppfd or 30+ watts per sqft. and I believe magic might happen. Bridgelux, California Lightworks, Samsung, Osram, and @Scynce Grown all produce tunable spectrum lights. Ruderalis doesn't receive a static spectrum like 3000k for 24 hours a day, could possibly be the reason people believe outdoor weed is superior to indoor, rather it gets a a spectrum of spectrums throughout the day and season. Surely that influences terpenes, hormones, auxins, etc.
nope..just came across as someone who questions/looks for answers as i do...woof......and check this out..someone in a grow group on fb supposedly got hooked up with one of theses......"Cropters"..check out whats "its supposed to do"...woof.

whatiscropterlights.jpg
 
nope..just came across as someone who questions/looks for answers as i do...woof......and check this out..someone in a grow group on fb supposedly got hooked up with one of theses......"Cropters"..check out whats "its supposed to do"...woof.

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Gotta question everything lol. Opinions don't buy grow equipment.

That is interesting-ish. I wonder what the ppfd on that light is. Thanks
 
The problem is we don't have a DLI recommendation provided by science. Any figure you see attributed to cannabis is somebody's guesswork, usually based on DLI recommended for tomatoes.

Also there is no science saying ruderalis can use 24/7 of light. A recent study of cannabis says they the plants DO need a rest period, i don't remember i=f they stated what length of time was best. I've gone from 24/7 to 20/4 and have seen about a 10% increase in harvest for my autos. Having just started this, I've only one grow's worth of data so it doesn't mean a lot yet. I'm about to harvest the second crop so we'll see what the data is this time. I try to keep all other parameters the same, same strain, medium, nutrient, the same lights and the same tent. I'd like to see others testing this.

You nailed it in this post. There is no magic DLI number for plants, but there are suggestions starting to form. The engineer for Amare lights told me that with their testing, they found certain plants just have a much higher threshold for intensity. I've talked to commercial growers that have seen light bleaching on clones sitting next to non-bleached clones from the same plant, etc (I totally believe in epigenetics, stress and environment can cause gene expression.)

Going from 18/6 to 24/0 is a 25% increase in light hours (also consumption of power.) But the results aren't that apparent (certainly not a 25% increase in production or weight,) which is a huge marker in the defense of "more light hours isn't necessarily better." We know autoflowers thrive under a certain amount of light (and start to suffer with less,) but factor in light intensity and spectrum and now you've got two rolling variables (seldom talked about.) Are growers seeing better results on 24/0 using cheaper, budget lights? Are grower seeing better results at 18/6 using high PPFD lighting? Way too many variables to make a concrete statement.

There's one variable though that I know for 100% sure. If you grow all year round (autoflowers) assuming a 90 day average harvest, that's 6 hours every day you're adding on to your electric bill from lights, fans, etc. 24 hour lighting at 365 days is 8,760 hours. At 18 hours, it's 6,570 hours. That's 2,190 hours difference between the two, which is with NO EXAGGERATION an entire autoflower grow's worth of electricity. You could have pulled an ENTIRE extra grow out of that 6 hours of juice you're burning every day. I'd take a fresh harvest over a gamble of "maybe this is going to pull more weight" any day of the week personally.

Ofcourse it can use light 24/7, science support it cause it is a C3 plant and C3 plants don't need a dark period. So dark period=nonsense. Dim period would the right terminology cause light intensity change processes in plants. That is it, C3 plants don't need darkness. :nono:
So by limiting the intensity to zero the overall daily processes of the plants will be different but light is not the only one that change processes, you could try humid period and dry period also, it would make a difference in plant process too but do the plant need a daily humid period? :nono:
I have also seen changes in photoperiod plants by reducing light intensity a few hours by shutting off the lights, some strains do like that but they may also like it cold, humid, less nutrients and so on.

The C3 statement is the most common (and in my opinion, overused and misunderstood statement) that people use in the 24/0 lighting defense. Food for thought, about 85% of all plant life on earth is a C3 plant. Very few parts of the planet have extended periods of 24 hour light or darkness. Just because plants have the ABILITY to do so, doesn't mean it's the MOST OPTIMAL thing to do. You can drive a car at 200+ mph if it's capable of doing it, but is that the most efficient thing on your gas tank? Or driving through a school zone? Or pretty much driving anywhere? lol :hump:

Plants also don't need the same amount of light during different phases of growth. You don't feed an infant a T-bone steak, right? Just like seedlings not needing much for nutrients starting out, they don't need this overpowering amount of light either.
 
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