New Grower Two plants very different results

[Balarama]

I think this logic will doom the variation in cannabis strains.
Thinking of only having uniform plants in one seed pack means it's inbred ot F1.
Many strains already got lost because of the market practices and more will in the future. I find this very sad, because the market selection has its own goals which are far from the natural course of development.

 

[HubbaBubba]

I think this logic will doom the variation in cannabis strains.

I am not sure what post you are referring to.

If the breeder has a superplant with superior characteristic then I want it inbred 7 generations. A huge part of inbreeding is selecting the BEST offspring each generation, not the retards.

If the breeder did a great job then by the 7th generation the seed are darn near clones of each other. We love clones... if they are from great plants.

I am a layman, no breeding experience. If I am spreading misinformation I hope someone will knock some sense into me.

 

[HubbaBubba]

Having grown two plants in differing conditions only shows phenotype expression.
Not to be confused with genotype stabiity.

This stuff makes me confused....

Genotype means the differences in the DNA of the plants?
Phenotype means differences we can see in the plants?

In humans 98% of DNA is not expressed, maybe dead weight, we are not sure what it does, but it doesn't make blue eyes, for example.

Happily, as a consumer what I care about is phenotype, I want my Blueberry plant to grow, and smell and smoke the same as my last 10 blueberry plants.

I want all my blueberry seeds to have the same phenotype. That happens with 99% reliability at the 7th generation. If the breeder did a good job.

 

[HubbaBubba]

And while I am ranting...

If the breeder is stoner who only vaguely knows the pedigree of his starting plants, mislabels his plants and mixes them up, and is sloppy with pollen, has a chaotic growing environment, and can't be bothered to keep records... then the 7th generation does not bring magical stability. His seeds will never be stable because he is a fuck up fairy. Yes, I am thinking of a nice guy I know, thank goodness he doesn't sell his seeds. He would like to sell, if he could just find some investors. Heaven help us.

 

[Balarama]

What logic? I am not sure what post you are referring to.
...
If the breeder did a great job then by the 7th generation the seed are darn near clones of each other. We love clones... if they are from great plants.

I was referring to this part by LimeGreen:
make this kind of genetic variation unacceptable in the marketplace

The logic that work on cannabis strains should be dictated by the market is killing variation in the cannabis genepool.
What happens when most breeding is done indoors under lights? How do plants respond on a long term, what are the implications for outdoor growers, for those seeking something else?
This thing with marketing seeds have done a lot of damage already(past 20-30 years), many strains got lost and even more will. Thanks to enthusiasts there are preservations being done, thanks also to the powers of the internet.

Any breeder/seedbank could have on offer a broad spectrum, regs, fems, landraces, inbred lines...with proper descriptions and so on...
But realistically, until the laws prohibit one to grow freely on a field, it's going to be a though beating on the cannabis genepool.

 

[LimeGreen]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, if there are people who actually like varying phenotypes, growth rates, and so forth within their so-called "strains" , then really there's nothing to worry about. Sloppy breeders with poor standards of uniformity will always exist, doing wild, scatter bred crosses. Do these produce some excellent product. Undoubtedly, Some of my favorite smoke has been wild, 4 way crosses and such. You just can't duplicate what you liked about it the first time when growing, because you don't know if the next seed is the mint pheno, the citrus pheno, the cheese pheno, or the coffee pheno.

For people who want genetic consistency in their cannabis, it starts with stable genetics from good breeding and selection practices. The marketplace at the professional level will ultimately demand this consistency, even if at some levels it's not there yet. If the Autoflower has a chance at ever being competitive in the marketplace as a choice for commercial growing, it won't be through some Christmas morning genetics that are are a surprise every time a bean meets soil. While the hobbyist may be forgiving about this stuff, the commercial producer simply can't be.

Ronin, you make an excellent point in the differences of the plants in the OP being as much from differing grow conditions than genetic variation, and I agree. I kind of lumped Sunny 747s reply about strikingly different plants from the same seeds into the first sentiment I posted to clarify.

 

[HubbaBubba]

Christmas morning genetics that are are a surprise every time a bean meets soil.

LOL

 

[A Gardener]

And while I am ranting...

If the breeder is stoner who only vaguely knows the pedigree of his starting plants, mislabels his plants and mixes them up, and is sloppy with pollen, has a chaotic growing environment, and can't be bothered to keep records... then the 7th generation does not bring magical stability. His seeds will never be stable because he is a fuck up fairy. Yes, I am thinking of a nice guy I know, thank goodness he doesn't sell his seeds. He would like to sell, if he could just find some investors. Heaven help us.

What did he ever do to you hey? Sell you a shonky seed? Poor buggar, he's an alright fella really I bet. I'm feeling for him.

 

[dankstyle J]

In other areas of breeding this is considered a Bad Thing.

Marijuana seed sellers and buyers seem happy at F4. (Filial generations) F1 = children of parents, F2 = grandchildren, F3 = great grandchildren, etc. At F4 the strain is not stable, but this is marketed a feature, like an Easter egg hunt with an emphasis on the wonderful hybrid vigor. Surprise, you don't know what phenotype you are gonna get! By comparison Tomato growers would considered F4 seeds to be unfinished, ok for sharing with other breeders but NOT ready for the general public. F7 is considered genetically stable for everything except marijuana, but that would requires 3 more seasons of work.

http://kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes2.html

That explains alot .

 

[HubbaBubba]

What did he ever do to you hey? Sell you a shonky seed? Poor buggar, he's an alright fella really I bet. I'm feeling for him.

Nah, he is a nice guy. We were neighbors and I would help him grow stuff. He is stoned into an indifferent stupor most of the time. He wanders through his garden creating chaos which is fun, but he never has the focus, drive, passion, persistence to stay with a project to stabilize seed. The thought of people like him selling seed worries me,
unless he calls it Granny's Shitty Knickers.