Grow Room Thinking about how COB LED's might change a perpetual grow set up

[Ahkens]

Please forgive the wordy-ness, I'm working this out in my head as I write this: I'm moving up from an outdoor/small tent to do a dedicated space.

I've never really done successfully, but oversimplified, at the highest level, old school perpetual grow systems included a seed/mother/clone area(s) (often under fluorescents), a veg and early flower room (usually under MH) and flower room (usually under SV). Most examples use a month long cycle so... Depending upon your space and strain ect, You drop seeds on day 1 of week 1. You move your young plants to the veg room at around 3 weeks and move those plants to the flower room at around week 7. Harvest is week 11. If you timed it right, you would have new plant's ready to move into the veg/early flower area the same day the last batch is ready to move to flower power area. In our oversimplified world, this means you would needed to drop new seeds by week 3 and 7'ish.

And the basic ideas seems works well, especially if you grow a few dialed in strains in a very dialed in way. It is actually a bit of an adventure, because you get seeds that all decide not to germinate. Or you screw up and cause a big nute burn, and all the plants in the Veg tent will need a week or two extra to recover. Or you learn that some strains just veg slower or faster than others (Bubba Kush can be slow, Acapulco Gold can lift a greenhouse off it's foundation in veg.) Or you get a really special plant, usually a sativa, that wants 150 days to finish. Growing this way keeps you on your toes because you are really targeting 8 to 12 weeks ahead of where you are.

But if you don't pick up the MH or SV lighting, you don't pick up a lot of build complications. I think keeping the seed/clone/mother area T5 florescent is good, Slow growth makes my life easier and no real heat issues. And I like the UVB capabilities of these lights everywhere. But for the other areas, since I'm going to be buying new lights anyway, I'm thinking simplify it all and go with COBS.

From a systems point of view, how does this change a perpetual grow?

Seems silly to move the plants. It would be *so* much easier to move the COB's around rather than the 7 week old plants! It also seems to introduce more flexibility into the system. If a sativa is taking too long, you could turn the rest of that room into a straight to flower crop of quick autos's and give that sativa all the time in the world. And the best part is I get make the decision on when to drop new seeds only a month before harvest. And it is a lot easier to look at plants in late flower and guess if they will need a lot more than month than it is to look at plant's at week 7 and guess when they might be done.

Still seems like a minimum of 3 areas. The seed/clone/mother area(s), then Grow room 1 and Grow room 2, and they are in what ever light phase they happen to be. It would be nice if one was in veg and one in flower, so that I could reduce the amount of lamps I need. However, I think eventually the stars won't line up, and I will need to have them both flower level, so I might as well plan for it rather than panic and have to order lights in a hurry.

Am I missing something here? I must be missing something because I can't find anything on this on the internet.

 

[Animatey]

Please forgive the wordy-ness, I'm working this out in my head as I write this: I'm moving up from an outdoor/small tent to do a dedicated space.

I've never really done successfully, but oversimplified, at the highest level, old school perpetual grow systems included a seed/mother/clone area(s) (often under fluorescents), a veg and early flower room (usually under MH) and flower room (usually under SV). Most examples use a month long cycle so... Depending upon your space and strain ect, You drop seeds on day 1 of week 1. You move your young plants to the veg room at around 3 weeks and move those plants to the flower room at around week 7. Harvest is week 11. If you timed it right, you would have new plant's ready to move into the veg/early flower area the same day the last batch is ready to move to flower power area. In our oversimplified world, this means you would needed to drop new seeds by week 3 and 7'ish.

And the basic ideas seems works well, especially if you grow a few dialed in strains in a very dialed in way. It is actually a bit of an adventure, because you get seeds that all decide not to germinate. Or you screw up and cause a big nute burn, and all the plants in the Veg tent will need a week or two extra to recover. Or you learn that some strains just veg slower or faster than others (Bubba Kush can be slow, Acapulco Gold can lift a greenhouse off it's foundation in veg.) Or you get a really special plant, usually a sativa, that wants 150 days to finish. Growing this way keeps you on your toes because you are really targeting 8 to 12 weeks ahead of where you are.

But if you don't pick up the MH or SV lighting, you don't pick up a lot of build complications. I think keeping the seed/clone/mother area T5 florescent is good, Slow growth makes my life easier and no real heat issues. And I like the UVB capabilities of these lights everywhere. But for the other areas, since I'm going to be buying new lights anyway, I'm thinking simplify it all and go with COBS.

From a systems point of view, how does this change a perpetual grow?

Seems silly to move the plants. It would be *so* much easier to move the COB's around rather than the 7 week old plants! It also seems to introduce more flexibility into the system. If a sativa is taking too long, you could turn the rest of that room into a straight to flower crop of quick autos's and give that sativa all the time in the world. And the best part is I get make the decision on when to drop new seeds only a month before harvest. And it is a lot easier to look at plants in late flower and guess if they will need a lot more than month than it is to look at plant's at week 7 and guess when they might be done.

Still seems like a minimum of 3 areas. The seed/clone/mother area(s), then Grow room 1 and Grow room 2, and they are in what ever light phase they happen to be. It would be nice if one was in veg and one in flower, so that I could reduce the amount of lamps I need. However, I think eventually the stars won't line up, and I will need to have them both flower level, so I might as well plan for it rather than panic and have to order lights in a hurry.

Am I missing something here? I must be missing something because I can't find anything on this on the internet.

I'm not 100% clear on what you're after but here are a couple points that are worth considering:

COBs are sort of outdated now. Strips are where the current technology is.

If you are building your own, you can build a lot of light for not much money with Bidgelux EB series 2 strips. Hundreds if not thousands of people have done this successfully using those strips.

If you buy strips in 3500 color spectrum it really works well for all phases of growth. The minimal benefit from vegging under 4000k and flowering under 3000k would not be worth moving a bunch of lights around IMO.

Just run everything 3500 for color temp, it works fine for full cycle. No moving plants or lights. The only thing you would need to do is raise lights, or turn a dimmer knob.

 

[automan2]

My grows have been perpetual for 15 years. Veg in one area for three weeks, then to a flower tent til done...germ 3 various strain every 3 weeks keeps me busy...every 3 weeks. My veg is 6500k T5HO and flower is a combo of 3500k cobs and qb....Personally I like the beefy nuggs cobs give me.

 

[Ahkens]

Thanks to you both. There so much old and bad information out there and much of makes sense to me because I learned during the old days. Coming back into the hobby cold is a trip. Luckily there is weed.

 

[automan2]

Thanks to you both. There so much old and bad information out there and much of makes sense to me because I learned during the old days. Coming back into the hobby cold is a trip. Luckily there is weed.

Just imagine starting cold back when some of us started....no forums and very little info on cannabis manufacturing. I was just lucky to have been raised in a farming community where we grow everything with such minimal care. Your task is to convert all that 'simple' stuff ...
I still plant a seed and smoke a doob. Patience is the best thing to grow with ya pot.

 

[Ahkens]

That's when I learned, mostly from dog eared, much loved and passed around, copies of High Times magazine. Sometimes those were two years old before I got my hands on them and they were still beyond gold to me. And I agree with you about how much care everything is now. Crowded plants grown as quickly as possible are a whole new level of work that I'm not sure I want.

And the light market right now is beyond nuts. Just after I read these replies I received mail from a Grow Ace, who was telling me that I couldn't really grow anything without their fall special of metal halide lights. Things are so shaken up right now and all the vendor's are trying to dump old stock and the old-tech manufactures are still trying to protect their market.

I decided I'm going to do my whole build out with just enough T5's so I can see and when all of that is generally set up, THEN do my light research and probably buy a generation or two back.

Thanks for letting me vent!

 

[Death The Cultivator]

What's your budget for lights like? Any adversion to DIY?

Mid power strips like the Bridgelux EB Gen 3 can be driven hard or soft at the cost of efficiency and can comfortably sit 6-8 inches from the canopy. It all depends on how you arrange the strips though. These need heatsinks because of the FCR pcb not dispersing heat quickly enough.

There are also HLG quantum board packs that aren't a bad choice either as they don't need heat sinks up to a point.

I haven't found inexpensive UV options but there are benefits from seed to harvest running near UV. Hardening happens faster and calcium uptake is improved.

Then you have cri ratings from 80-95 depending on the manufacturer. The higher cri correlates to more red in the far/deep ranges and more green. Better flowering and growth overall. You lose efficiency at the higher cri though.

HLG/Bridgelux/GLA have 92+ cri and all are over 2.4+ umols/j. Cri 80 is usually cheaper and more efficient.

I'm running a perpetual with photos. They start in my tent with vertical shelving and Bridgelux Gen 2 strips in 3000k. Cut my clones 4-6 weeks before my harvest then transplant to flood table under 500w bridgelux gen 2 fixture in 3000k.

 

[Simplicio]

I use 4 different small grow areas, with auto seeds started at different times.
This produces an auto harvest every few weeks.

 

[Ahkens]

Wow, I've been on the Bridgelux page all morning. They look awesome. When I get closer to the right time to make a light decision, they will certainly be on the list.

What's your budget for lights like? Any aversion to DIY?

Lights cost what they cost. It isn't a place where I've ever been able to stick to a budget. only a timeline. For planning, a moderate price range and easy DIY but electrical I would rather pay other's to do for me or otherwise I worry. I think the marketer's have us figured out. It seems to light up a 4x4 flower area, somehow, magically, you are always going to end up spending $1000 plus or minus $300. That's an OK price range.

At this point, I'm more than happy vegging under T5's with assist from old burple (or whatever mostly worn out) lights. And I'm a big fan of my 4 tube mix of reptile UVB and 6500+ for side lighting in all my tents. Cool, cheap and easy. When I used to put my old tent in flower, I always used a flower initiator far red bulb along with UVB for 30 min after lights out. It seemed to help, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it in a more complex set up.

Right now, I'm setting up in my garage but I have an old pony barn that I want to trip out into 3 grow rooms, two 9x9 and one 12x12. However, this will be way over the top, especially for my needs. I quit growing because I live in a legal state, great cheap pot is one mile away. Unfortunately, my tastes in flower run towards the old long 200 day huge sativas. They don't show up in the stores very often and sell out fast. And I figured out that I really miss growing. There is a huge difference between great store bought pot and my pot. Even if my pot isn't as pretty nor lab test as well, it is far superior to me, especially given a longer cure. So, I know myself and I know that someday that barn will be filled, but maybe just with 3 plants.

Want another wrinkle? The barn needs a new roof. I think I'm going to put in a clear one so that I can use what sunlight I can. However, I live near Seattle, so in the winter when the weak sun rises a 10 am and sets at 4 pm, I think I will just need full lights anyway, but that's a problem for next winter. This winter I'm just starting up the process again and trying to learn the huge amounts of new science.

Any thoughts on how a clear roof would change things for year round growing? The internet seems to say that most greenhouses go crazy bright or nothing and just grow with the seasons. Greenhouses where they grow out mother's for clones seem to stick to florescent and just nudge the length of day longer, they say it doesn't take much, but that's veg, not flower. My walls will be solid, with only the roof translucent plastic. I know the angle of the sun in each season will make a big difference. I have no idea how to calculate that out, so I think it's going to be a trial and error.

Thanks so much for you input. It means a lot to me.

 

[Ahkens]

I use 4 different small grow areas, with auto seeds started at different times.
This produces an auto harvest every few weeks.

I remember when I had my tent and seeding areas set up, and it was just like that too. Simple. Each room did it's own thing and was easy to read. With only one tent, it wasn't really a perpetual grow like you have.

Do you try to sort your auto's so that they all are on the same schedule? I.e. The 8 week strains in one room and the 12+ strains in another, or do you just fill the spots as they open?

Thanks!!!!