Start of a magnesium def? Please help!

[BII]

That's not the answer... I know it may seem like a lot to learn/take in, but just think it over out loud for a second... You are using living soil (that should be water only).. You added the KIS nutrient pack... You added Dr. Earth dry amendments... You added earthworm casting, recharge, coconut water great white, AND calmag... All for a plant that is 3 weeks old. Pull back... Think it over out loud.. Ask yourself, how many of those items contain magnesium/calcium/potassium ect.. Check labels if you need to.. If you don't understand how recharge and great white both work, they add microbes, fungus and bacteria to the soil.. That Microbe life breaks down the organic matter and makes the nutrients in the soil available to the plant.. That's on top of the two different amendments you added as a nutrient source as well..

The term/word deficiency DOES NOT automatically mean add more.. I can't stress that enough. Do not add more cal mag.. There are about 6 active calcium/magnesium sources in that soil right now based on what you've listed. It doesn't need any more. It needs to use the nutrients that are already in the pot.. If it's not using those nutrients (which is why it looks deficient) there's a reason for it. In this case, you are on the verge of a nutrient lock out.. Lock outs make the nutrients unavailable to the plant.. That happens when excess nutrients sit in the soil.. Too much calcium will lock out magnesium.. Too much magnesium will lock out calcium.. Too much potassium locks out nitrogen, calcium and magnesium, ect.. Every nutrient has another, or multiples that it can lock out..

You have every possible nutrient source in that soil.. The conclusion shouldn't be to add more.. It should be to find out why its not using the nutrients you've already given it.

At three weeks old, not much is needed. You doubled up on inoculates (great white and recharge) and doubled up on amendments (KIS and Dr. Earth).. Anding doubled up on calcium and magnesium (calmag and coconut water).. Im sure this is the start of a nutrient lock out. It's hard to say how to treat it.. It's much easier to add more of something if its needed, than it is to remove an excess of something if needed. Dr. Earth is slow release.. the more you water it, the more nutrients it releases, so a flush can be problematic. I would use water only, and water until run off for the next couple of weeks.. If you top dress again or continue to use that list of products, the problems will intensify and spread very quickly. It's already on track to do that. Continuing to more will just fuel the fire.

Particularly regarding:
"Lock outs make the nutrients unavailable to the plant.. That happens when excess nutrients sit in the soil...."

Is lockout restricted to roots or is it systemic (affecting the whole plant)? For example, here Mg may be 'deficient' due to excess uptake of other nutrient(s) in the soil. But presuming this is a Mg deficiency (in the leaf tissues), can this be treated/fixed by foliar treatment, such as with epsom salt, or would that just be overkill, just make things worse, like putting more into the soil? Does foliar feeding count towards soil/media-based nutrient excesses?

 

[Proph]

Particularly regarding:
"Lock outs make the nutrients unavailable to the plant.. That happens when excess nutrients sit in the soil...."

Is lockout restricted to roots or is it systemic (affecting the whole plant)? For example, here Mg may be 'deficient' due to excess uptake of other nutrient(s) in the soil. But presuming this is a Mg deficiency (in the leaf tissues), can this be treated/fixed by foliar treatment, such as with epsom salt, or would that just be overkill, just make things worse, like putting more into the soil? Does foliar feeding count towards soil/media-based nutrient excesses?

Good question! Someone else inboxed me the same question. Yes, both nutrient lock out and ph lock out are restricted to the root zone. Excess uptake of nutrients causes toxicity issues, not deficiency issues. So an excess "uptake" of a certain nutrient wont cause a different nutrient ro be deficient. If a nutrient is available to the plant, it will use it, until it's gone.. On the other hand, an excess of a certain nutrient sitting in the root zone, will make other nutrients in the root zone unavailable to the plant, causing it to look "deficient'. That's when most think to add more of whatever is showing as deficient. Two things must be considered when considering a foliar feed when dealing with a lockout or normal deficiency... 1. Which nutrient is it and 2. Is it mobile or immobile. In this case, a foliar can help, but it's only temporary and doesn't address the issue. Mg is mobile, so if it can't access mg through the root zone/uptake, it will take any mg stored in the leaves and use it and move it to where it needs to go... So a foliar could actually slow down the spread of a mobile nutrient.. but it won't address the issue/cause. You can also, as you mentioned, cause an "excess uptake" with foliars if they are not mixed in the proper ratios, especially when it's a single nutrient foliar like calcium or Mg.. It's easy to over do it.. But either way, you cant keep spraying foliar feeds in mid/late flower, so it's great for prevention, but only a temporary "fix"

Foliars in general are awesome! I highly recommend using them from seedling to preflower!

 

[TheFerret]

As an update I after thinking about @Proph advice some more, I held off on watering for a few days longer than I was before on my normal schedule. If my soil was loaded with everything already as pointed out I thought the extra water may be hurting nute absorption in some way for one nute but maybe not others. So far it hasn't gotten much worse and If at all and I'll continue to just use PH'd water the next few weeks or so.

 

[GinFizzLuv]

As an update I after thinking about @Proph advice some more, I held off on watering for a few days longer than I was before on my normal schedule. If my soil was loaded with everything already as pointed out I thought the extra water may be hurting nute absorption in some way for one nute but maybe not others. So far it hasn't gotten much worse and If at all and I'll continue to just use PH'd water the next few weeks or so.

How is your plant doing a few weeks later? I’m seeing a similar symptoms on a plant of mine in living soil.

 

[TheFerret]

2 out of 4 of my plants were getting pretty big and could use extra food so I went ahead and ended up top dressing on 11/2 with some bloom and EWC on all 4 of my plants. Been watering with coconut water every 3 or 4 days and they seem to be pretty happy. Some of the lockout/damage reversed and some stayed but they are chonkin up and getting frosty now. I think it is likely I added to much nutes to the soil when I pre-ammended with a combination of over watering for the lock out.

 

[Blu_tri]

2 out of 4 of my plants were getting pretty big and could use extra food so I went ahead and ended up top dressing on 11/2 with some bloom and EWC on all 4 of my plants. Been watering with coconut water every 3 or 4 days and they seem to be pretty happy. Some of the lockout/damage reversed and some stayed but they are chonkin up and getting frosty now. I think it is likely I added to much nutes to the soil when I pre-ammended with a combination of over watering for the lock out.

I use the same food start to finish in coco. Are your stems getting red? I’m sure they are by now. Watch how the red stems increase in darkness and continue all over your plant. Before flower you didn’t have them. What what triggers it. Learn how to make it go away.

 

[TheFerret]

I use the same food start to finish in coco. Are your stems getting red? I’m sure they are by now. Watch how the red stems increase in darkness and continue all over your plant. Before flower you didn’t have them. What what triggers it. Learn how to make it go away.

Yep pretty much on all my plants stems red before flower. I think most of mine are genetics but could be wrong. I like the colors! Why do we want it to go away? I know it can mean a few diff things. I don't change the food either only dry amend.

 

[Blu_tri]

Check your run off ppm. See if it is high.

 

[Budgie45]

Check your run off ppm. See if it is high.

So what’s high on run off ppm
The water at my house is terrible it’s like 47ppm some one told me I should use calmag to bring it up to 160ppm

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Particularly regarding:
"Lock outs make the nutrients unavailable to the plant.. That happens when excess nutrients sit in the soil...."

Is lockout restricted to roots or is it systemic (affecting the whole plant)? For example, here Mg may be 'deficient' due to excess uptake of other nutrient(s) in the soil. But presuming this is a Mg deficiency (in the leaf tissues), can this be treated/fixed by foliar treatment, such as with epsom salt, or would that just be overkill, just make things worse, like putting more into the soil? Does foliar feeding count towards soil/media-based nutrient excesses?

@BII You can fix a true deficiency with a foliar application you cannot fix a lock-out because the plant already has too much.

2 out of 4 of my plants were getting pretty big and could use extra food so I went ahead and ended up top dressing on 11/2 with some bloom and EWC on all 4 of my plants. Been watering with coconut water every 3 or 4 days and they seem to be pretty happy. Some of the lockout/damage reversed and some stayed but they are chonkin up and getting frosty now. I think it is likely I added to much nutes to the soil when I pre-ammended with a combination of over watering for the lock out.

How do you know they needed extra food?