Indoor Questions on AF LST in a confined space and a few more.

[dankitydank420]

Okay, so I've been reading for months now ( years actually, but diligently for months), and I think I'm ready to give it a shot. Before I go and set this all up I'd like to make sure I have the best possible base to start with, so I'd like to get rid of all my uncertainties now. I plan to grow 4 auto flowers (undecided on strain, another reason I'm here), in a 50 gallon (or as big as I can find) Rubbermaid DIY Grow box. One question I have is concerning negative air pressure, I'm aware that the passive intake has to be smaller (best airflow at 1/2 size?) as the exhaust holes. Ok So I'll have 2 1/2 bins stacked up and pinned together for stability (2 whole bins and a spacer for extra height). I'm going to jam as many CFLS as I can into the top evenly, probably 300-400 watts worth (from what I read you get awesome lumens per sq. ft. in these things due to the size). I'll place a table or something inside and adjust PLANT HEIGHT as needed to keep them close to the lights, installing an adjustable fixture in here would be too much of a pain. I plan to veg with 3/4 6500k and 1/4 2700k then I'll switch ratios ( 3/4 2700k 1/4 6500k) at first signs of preflower along with nutes. For nutes I'll be going all organic, root stimulant, Trio, Molasses and Liquid Bat (Bat Guano). I plan to start feeding at 10-12 days. Now I'm sure I could find this info on various different forums, but there are so many opinions I'd really like somebody experienced with autoflowers to help me out (if you wouldn't mind). I've read that autoflowers don't take well to full strength feedings so I plan to reach 3/4 strength max. Schedule will look something like this. I'm unsure of when to start the root stimulant, can I start using this from day one? Can I start at full strength? Will using the root stimulant in my germination water help early root growth and if so at what strength? I plan to start feedings at 10-12 days starting with 1/4 Grow Big.

Week 2 1/4 Grow Big
Week 3 1/2 Grow Big
Week 4 3/4 Grow Big
Week 5 1/4 Grow Big and 1/4 Big Bloom 1/4 Tiger Bloom (alternating every other feeding and I'll be feeding every other watering)

I was told to alternate Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom between feedings and to not use them together, is this good advice?

Week 6 1/2 Big Bloom 1/2 Tiger Bloom (alternating every other feeding)
Week 7 3/4 Big Bloom 3/4 Tiger Bloom (alternating again)
At the beginning of week 8 I'll use a flushing solution and continue to feed only water/molasses until the trichs tell me it's chop time.

I am unsure of when and how to introduce Bat Guano/Molasses. Someone said 1/2 cup Bat Guano per plant lasts 4 weeks... So when they start flowering do I just give them a half cup each and thats it? or is it different with liquid bat? Should I start with maybe 1 tsp per gallon at the beginning of flowering and move my way up to 1 tbsp every feeding? Feed molasses only in flowering correct starting at 1 tsp per gallon? Any help here would be mucho appreciated.

My next question is, should I bother trying to LST growing 4 plants out of a 50 gallon rubbermaid grow chamber in 3 gallon pots or will it get too crowded? If so which is a good stable strain to LST in a small area (feminized only please).

My final question is regarding ventilation (mostly concerning negative air pressure), light traps, and filtration. So I plan to run 2 120mm PC FANS OUT for exhaust at the top on one side of the lights (the long way) They will be blowing air into a dryer vent (pointing out of the box facing down and stuffed with Carbon Activated Filters these will also act as light traps). My passive intake will be a pvc pipe on the bottom side (opposite the exhaust fans and half the size of the hole they make). From what I've read this will create good negative air pressure. My question is if I install a 3rd pc fan opposite the exhaust fans, blowing into the box, across the lights, and into the exhaust fans, will this decrease or destroy the negative air pressure? And for a light trap on this side could I just put a layer of mylar over the back of the fan and tape it to the bin since the fan is blowing in? I can test this when the time comes, but I'd rather not get it all put together to find out that there's no negative air pressure. I was also going to place a small clip on fan, but someone said that too much air circulation in such a small space could make it harder for the stale air to leave the box?

I know I'm asking a lot and I give a big thanks to anyone who takes the time to read and help a newb out.

Stay high.

 

[Joe Dirt]

I'd be glad to help, but 50 gals is only about 6.5 cu ft. That's less than a 2x2x2 area... 300w-400w of cfls... 4 plants... I must be missing something. Help me out on this part if I've misunderstood something.

As far as the ferts are concerned... A lot depends on which soil mix you're going to use. I use Fox Farm Ocean Forest which has ferts and wormcastings in it. Others use Pro-mix which does not have ferts but is an excellent mix. But, the two have different fert requirements. As far as the bat guano is concerned, that stuff is pretty hot. I don't know of anyone who adds it to the soil during a grow.

So, if you'll help me to understand what I missed on the grow box, I'll try to help.

 

[dankitydank420]

I haven't bought the bins yet so I don't know the exact size... But I've seen people grow 2 small plants or 1 decent plant in the 18 gallon bins ( I have some and could definitely see 2 small plants fitting in there, maybe in 1-2 gallon buckets) so I'm fairly confident 4 autoflowers would fit in a 50 gallon. I just don't know if LST would be a good idea or not because it may be somewhat cramped. My main question is about creating negative air pressure so get good ventilation going on. I'll have 2 pc fans up near the lights blowing OUT of the box into dryer vents (attached to the fan on the outside of the box facing down), the vents will be lightly stuffed with carbon activated filters. My passive intake will be at the bottom on the opposite side and the hole will be approx 1/2 the size and I'll be caulking a pvc pipe in there to prevent light leaks. My main concern is that I also want to put a 3rd pc fan opposite the exhaust fans blowing cool air into the box over the lights, will this hurt the negative air pressure/ventilation? I'm assuming no, but I'd like to make sure. I've heard of plenty of people using bat guano, maybe not liquid bat. If anyone else has experience with this your input would be appreciated. When should I start feeding molasses? During flowering starting at 1 tsp per gallon or?

Also, should I alternate big bloom and tiger bloom during flowering using only one every other feeding, or use them together starting at 1/4 strength each?

 

[infamousralphster]

Hey bud good luck on your upcoming grow. here is fd's fert schedule that got passed to me. i dont know anything about brewing teas so i swap them out with the ff big bloom.

Originally Posted by John Mondello
fd... WHEN YOU SAY HIGH FERT SCHEDULE... WHAT ARE WE TALKIN HERE? WHAT STRNGTH AND HOW OFTEN? (REALLY STILL TRYIN TO GET A HANDLE ON THIS CRAZY-REDUCED FERT SCHED FOR AUTOS... STILL ADJUSTING!)
what i mean is that not all autos are the same lol
I have been growing the same genetic line for over a year now
and they all seem like they really like my fert schedule.
This is what i doi break it down as follows
First off let me talk about what i use as ferts. I have a 4 part system that i use and most of this is in the brain so please bare with me as i share this one.
I use grow big (hydro formula) Tiger Bloom and then two tea variations. One is high in N for veg and the other is high in Phosphorus when its time to flower.
I apply these through out the grow. I use the to get it started.
then i move to the teas and then back to the and then back to the teas
So i break it down like this:
GB is 3Tbsp/1Gal for heavy feedings. So in my mind this is more than enough for our fave friends. So it states that 2tbsp/1gal is for normal feedings so i use this as my base number. After that i break it down into 1/4
at 7 days i start like this
Day 7 1/4 dose to a gal
Day 14 1/2 dose to a gal + 8oz of N rated tea
Day 21 1tbsp GB and then 1/4 of TB (bringing in the TB)
Day 28 1/2 TB + 8oz of Phosphorus rated tea
Day 35 1.5 tbsp TB to a gal
Day 41 2tbsp of TB and 8oz of Phosphorus rated tea
Then Flush till finish unless it needs something at the end.
I think that this is everything that i do like i said i am not sure as this is all in my head. If the plants demand more that i give more this is just something to go by. I usually do not swap in clean water feedings at all over the fert program. I just use the jug then its gone. Now if i start to see over feeding or lockouts ill flush.
But if i keep my water on point i never usually see a lock out or toxicity.
Hope this helps

cheers mate!

 

[AndyBotwin]

Regarding the negative air pressure - are you saying you want to add a fan inside the box, or on the intake itself? A fan moving air around inside is common and something your plants will need anyway. I don't think this is going to have a significant effect of the overall pressure (mine doesn't seem to). In my box, which is around the same size you're talking about, I ended up running hot until I added a fan on the intake to get cool air in quicker. Be aware that you may need to tweak some things once you get it all built and see how it works. You can see my box here including the cheapo cardboard light traps: http://www.autoflower.org/f5/first-time-grow-lowryder-2-pakistan-ryder-1618.html

 

[dankitydank420]

Thanks for all the info guys, I'm definitely going to add probably two 120mm intake fans at the bottom for intake since I'll be setting up my lights differently so that now I can probably fit up to 20. I'll be using two of these stacked up http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053, so approx 21 inches deep 37 inches tall and 42.5 inches wide. I'm assuming 22-25" of grow room will be enough for autoflowers? I can add a spacer but would rather not have to that's another 20 bucks and it's going to make things more complicated. I'm assuming I can fit 4 plants in here 2 rows of 2 in 2 gallon pots? I plan to cut holes in the lid of the top bin and superglue single light sockets in a row all the way down, I'll tape when up with electrical tape as well for extra support, and I'll use y splitters so 2 lights per socket. Plug them all into a 10 outlet heavy duty surge protector and plug that into a timer and I should be good. Initially I was going to wire them all together, but I'm not too good with that stuff... Would having the light that close to the lid be bad? I don't see why not, and it's much easier/cheaper than buying a fixture. I think I'm just going to go with grow big/big bloom and molasses/liquid bat for nutes, I'd like to keep it organic and tiger bloom isn't organic correct?

I'm still confused about the teas so I might end up using ONLY grow big and big bloom. Someone had told me I could mix it all together and feed as such, not that I would have to have entirely different reservoirs for my teas. In that case I would need what 4? One for plain water one for nutes and 2 more for teas? screw that... or can I mix it all together? This is getting way more complicated than I wanted it to be lol.

 

[Muddy]

I don't think that 25" of vertical space is going to be sufficient. Strains like Mi5, Onyx, AA can easily reach 2' so unless you stay with true dwarfs like Hindu Kush, Snowryder or Blue Himalayan you're going to run out of room. Add an 8" high pot, and a couple inches of space between the plants and the lights, and you're already at 3'. Yes, you could LST them but that will take up more of your horizontal space and cut down on the number of plants you can grow. Personally, I'd go for more height and not LST. Also, 21" won't be enough space to set pots side by side. You will probably have to stagger your two rows. Generally speaking, figure 1 sq. ft. per plant.

As Joe Dirt mentioned, your feeding schedule will be determined by what soil mix you use, and also by what strain you grow. I use Pro Mix, which is a soil less peat/perlite mix. On it's own it contains very little nutrients so I have to supply them. Growing Mi5 in that mix I've had no issues using at half strength and working up to full strength, with the occasional heavy feeding. Also, different strains have different nutrients requirements, so what works for one may not be best for another.

 

[dankitydank420]

I did actually plan on growing some blue himalaya diesel I just wasn't sure if it was a small enough strain or not. So 21W x 37L x 42.5H Unless my math is seriously off this is approx 19 cubic feet, so I'm assuming I wouldnt have any issues LSTing 4 true dwarfs in here ( blue himalaya diesel ). I'd like to LST because I'd imagine yield won't be very great off of 4 dwarfs even with 400-500 watts of CFLS. I'd like to pull at least a couple ounces out of this if possible so if anyone has a better idea. I could add a spacer to get about 45-50 inches of grow height and do a short sativa photoperiod strain and probably be able to veg for 4-5 weeks without surpassing my height restrictions. I'm just thinking an LST autoflower grow may be a lil easier for my first grow. LSTing seems easy enough, and a 9-10 week harvest sounds pretty prime to me even though yields wont be as big. Eventually I plan to set up a second chamber and plant in each one month by month so I get a harvest approx once per month and use autoflowers only at least until I get the hang of it. If anyone has a better idea for what I can do on my small budget I'd appreciate your input (300-400$ budget). I have a fairly large closet approx 2 feet deep by 12 feet wide by 12 feet high. I could section off a part of my closet and maybe use a 400w HPS, but I would have trouble sealing off the top of the grow area and ventilation would be a pain because I can't cut any holes in the walls. Any ideas?

p.s. The grow chamber will be approx 19 cubic feet total. 5 sq feet from the bottom to top, so 4 or even 5 true dwarfs from what I'm guessing definitely wouldn't be an issue, I'm just wondering if there are better options for my small budget

 

[TshirtNinja]

I did actually plan on growing some blue himalaya diesel I just wasn't sure if it was a small enough strain or not. So 21W x 37L x 42.5H Unless my math is seriously off this is approx 19 cubic feet, so I'm assuming I wouldnt have any issues LSTing 4 true dwarfs in here ( blue himalaya diesel ). I'd like to LST because I'd imagine yield won't be very great off of 4 dwarfs even with 400-500 watts of CFLS. I'd like to pull at least a couple ounces out of this if possible so if anyone has a better idea. I could add a spacer to get about 45-50 inches of grow height and do a short sativa photoperiod strain and probably be able to veg for 4-5 weeks without surpassing my height restrictions. I'm just thinking an LST autoflower grow may be a lil easier for my first grow. LSTing seems easy enough, and a 9-10 week harvest sounds pretty prime to me even though yields wont be as big. Eventually I plan to set up a second chamber and plant in each one month by month so I get a harvest approx once per month and use autoflowers only at least until I get the hang of it. If anyone has a better idea for what I can do on my small budget I'd appreciate your input (300-400$ budget). I have a fairly large closet approx 2 feet deep by 12 feet wide by 12 feet high. I could section off a part of my closet and maybe use a 400w HPS, but I would have trouble sealing off the top of the grow area and ventilation would be a pain because I can't cut any holes in the walls. Any ideas?

p.s. The grow chamber will be approx 19 cubic feet total. 5 sq feet from the bottom to top, so 4 or even 5 true dwarfs from what I'm guessing definitely wouldn't be an issue, I'm just wondering if there are better options for my small budget

From experience I will tell you that your going to burn your plants growing like this.... I started off in rubbermaid with cfl and you just can't honestly regulate the temp without spending enough that ou might as well have bought a decent grow tent. I know no one wants to hear that but it's true. I had 2 container design and it was horrible to try and keep the smell down as well. Research grow tents and save your dough. It's harder to fix a problem then to design a good system from the getgo.

---------- Post added 07-28-2011 at 11:03 AM ----------

Also expect to crop 12 weeks from seed. 9-10 didn't happen for me with any of the strains you have mentioned.

 

[dankitydank420]

I've seen several of these grows turn out really good pulling as much as 4-5 ounces out of a box, and the grow in which they did that I believe was using 30 gallon bins ( just 2 bins and a 3rd acting as a spacer) and I believe it was a 2 plant LST from the looks of it and his plants look superb http://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/51417-diy-4oz-minimum-yield-grow.html. I'll have twice as many lights ( maybe even more, probably 16, all depends on how much the top of the lid can hold) but twice as much ventilation as this guide. 1 120 mm pc fan at the bottom for intake and 2 120 mm pc fans up near the lights for exhaust ( they will be blowing into dryer vent stuffed with carbon activated filters and acting as light traps). I'll use a regular vent facing down for a light trap on the bottom and I'll place a few small clip on oscillating fans inside. Stealth, discretion and budget are why I choose to go this way, if I had a better option I would most definitely go with that. I was initially going to go with a grow tent 400 w mh/hps and a 6" inline fan/carbon filter but I was originally working off of a $1200 budget which isn't the case now. I mean I've seen people (in real life) grow plants in their closet with minimal lighting no ventilation and he pulls about a 1/4 - 1/2 off each plant, granted thats not the way I want to go, he literally spent 20$ on his setup. I've been reading for weeks and have seen various rubbermaid grows (most not using autoflowers which imho would be even harder) that come out very nicely. I strongly believe this is the best way to go on my small 300$ budget.

p.s. I'm fairly new to all of this, but I'm pretty sure if I create enough air circulation in the box ( not to mention I'll have a couple big oscillating fans blowing on the box from the outside and the temps in my house never go above 70F I think plant burn due to heat or them getting too close to the lights will be the least of my worries, just my opinion. So I think I'll go with a 4 Blue Himalaya Diesel LST in 2 gallon square pots (assuming square pots will fit better in a rectangular space). As I said before I have 19 cubic feet of total space ( just over 5 sq feet from top to bottom ), based on what I've read this is enough room, it may get a little cramped, but between LSTING and leaf folding I don't think I'll have trouble getting light through the canopy, if not I'll have to add some side lighting. Does anyone see this being a SERIOUS issue as in the grow completely fails no chance in hell for this to work. Also, the dimensions provided are before I decided to add a spacer so the cubic feet will increase approx 1/4. My final decision on nutes is Trio and Molasses, My question is do I HAVE to make a tea with the molasses or can I mix it in with the stuff every other feeding? Thanks again guys.