Question on nutes + drooping leaves

[mistertim]

Hi All!

First time grower here hoping for a bit of advice. I currently have 3 Northern Light autos and I was wondering about nutrients as well as some drooping leaves one of them seems to be experiencing.

My setup:

3 NL Autos
4x2 grow tent
320 watt Kind LED grow light
2x5 gallon and 1x2 gallon fabric pots
Substrate is 50/50 mix of OF and HF with about 15-20% perlite
20/4 light cycle
Temps between 70-78
RH between 55-60%
All plants are 30 days out from first sprouting
Currently using distilled water that I PH to ~6.5 (though I need to recalibrate my PH meter as I'm worried that it's off)

One question I have is about nutrients. I currently have Fox Farm trio and I've seen other threads where people say that OF is hot enough to not need any nutes until around 4 weeks or so.

But since I made this a 50/50 OF and HF mix because I was planting directly in their permanent homes and wanted to avoid any burn of the seedlings I was curious if that would still be the case and if not, which of the 3 I should start with.

I just watered them yesterday and decided to add a very small amount of Tiger Bloom as they're currently in preflower, but I'm wondering if it would be better to use Big Bloom and/or Grow Big instead at this point. Also wondering if Cal Mag is necessary or not given that I'm using soil.

Another issue I'm seeing with the "runt" of the pack in the 2 gallon pot is some drooping leaves on new nodes. I'm assuming that means I potentially overwatered them? Another thing I noted on that girl is a leaf on the bottom that looks yellow and dying, though that seems to be the only one.

Otherwise I think they seem more or less healthy, but I'm a complete noob so I could be completely mistaken. I've also been doing tie down LST for a bit over a week. Here are some pictures.

All three in the tent:

The runt girl (the yellowing, dying lookin flower is on the bottom right):

This one isn't quite as far along in preflower and is super bushy, but that's because when I was doing LST I, like a noob, wasn't gentle enough and snapped a stalk. I taped it together so hopefully it recovers:

This one seems to be the farthest along, even though they're all 30 days old:

I appreciate any pointers you all could give me. Thanks in advance!

 

[Suki]

I definitely don't think you need any grow big, they look like they may have too much N as it is. The red stems and clawing make me think you've got an excess of N. Your leaves are a super dark green which also indicates plenty of N as well. Definitely recalibrate your PH meter, cause the red stems can indicate incorrect PH as well. OF and HF have very similar nutrient contents, so I don't know that doing half and half is going to make too much difference in that regard, really you're only dropping your P doing that IIRC. I wouldn't start tiger bloom until you're seeing actual little pompom buds, when the plants stop stretching. If you're feeding anything at this point, I think your best bet is to just stick with Big Bloom. Have you checked your water report to see if you need to remove chloramine? Otherwise they look pretty healthy to me. That leaf you're talking about doesn't actually look to be yellowing. It more looks like a splatter burn than anything but it may be a nute issue as well. Watch the leaf/leaves, if it doesn't spread you should be fine, if it does there may be something else that needs correcting.

 

[mistertim]

I definitely don't think you need any grow big, they look like they may have too much N as it is. The red stems and clawing make me think you've got an excess of N. Your leaves are a super dark green which also indicates plenty of N as well. Definitely recalibrate your PH meter, cause the red stems can indicate incorrect PH as well. OF and HF have very similar nutrient contents, so I don't know that doing half and half is going to make too much difference in that regard, really you're only dropping your P doing that IIRC. I wouldn't start tiger bloom until you're seeing actual little pompom buds, when the plants stop stretching. If you're feeding anything at this point, I think your best bet is to just stick with Big Bloom. Have you checked your water report to see if you need to remove chloramine? Otherwise they look pretty healthy to me. That leaf you're talking about doesn't actually look to be yellowing. It more looks like a splatter burn than anything but it may be a nute issue as well. Watch the leaf/leaves, if it doesn't spread you should be fine, if it does there may be something else that needs correcting.

Thanks for the input! I was wondering about possible N toxicity as well because of the dark leaves but I'm still trying to wade through the different indicators of different problems that the plants can show. For too much N I'm not quite sure what I could do other than possibly a flush or would it sort itself out over time?

I actually use distilled water with a TDS of about 2-3 PPM so there's really nothing there at all unless I add some nutes, which is why I was wondering when would be a good time to start those and which would be best. Luckily I only used about 1/4 dose of Tiger Bloom so it hopefully wasn't enough to cause problems. I'll switch over to maybe 1/2 dose of Big Bloom for now, thanks for the recommendation! I'm definitely going to recalibrate my PH meter and either do a slurry or runoff test as I'm wondering if that could be the culprit as well.

As far as the leaf, that's what I was a bit confused about because I didn't see that issue on any of the other leaves, so hopefully it's not a big issue.

 

[Suki]

Thanks for the input! I was wondering about possible N toxicity as well because of the dark leaves but I'm still trying to wade through the different indicators of different problems that the plants can show. For too much N I'm not quite sure what I could do other than possibly a flush or would it sort itself out over time?

I actually use distilled water with a TDS of about 2-3 PPM so there's really nothing there at all unless I add some nutes, which is why I was wondering when would be a good time to start those and which would be best. Luckily I only used about 1/4 dose of Tiger Bloom so it hopefully wasn't enough to cause problems. I'll switch over to maybe 1/2 dose of Big Bloom for now, thanks for the recommendation! I'm definitely going to recalibrate my PH meter and either do a slurry or runoff test as I'm wondering if that could be the culprit as well.

As far as the leaf, that's what I was a bit confused about because I didn't see that issue on any of the other leaves, so hopefully it's not a big issue.

Definitely don't flush if you're in soil. Flushing is really only beneficial with coco, in soil you're just going to throw your soil nutes and ph out of whack. I would just leave it as is, they will use up the N eventually. Just don't add any more. As far as the tiger bloom, I doubt you've done any real harm with that, just wait till they are done stretching and then start using it. Unless you've got plants that are vegging for a long time I almost feel like the grow big is unnecessary. Next grow I'm planning to go without and only use it if they start to look N hungry, as I definitely gave my current grow too much N early in and it has caused me all sorts of issues. With using distilled you may find yourself needing to add magnesium, skip the cal mag, as OF and HF both have plenty of calcium. Go with Epsom salt instead. Using distilled you may need a tiny calcium boost later on but more than likely the soil should carry you through just fine without it. This is my mixes, though I do use tap water so I account for about 40ml/l of calcium in that calculation. Is there a reason you're using distilled vs tap?

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@mistertimWelcome to AFN Your plants look fine. Do not fertilize until the plants ask for it. They will start to turn lime green when it is time. Never feed single nutrients - EVER. You must always add nutrients in balance. Once you get a pot out of balance it is very difficult to get it back. If you continue to use Distilled or RO water when you start feeding on the days you feed add 50 PPM of Cal-mag to the water before you mix in the other nutrients. Be sure to mix them in the order of the chart.

Learn about balance here:

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

Get calibration fluid for your PH pen ASAP. PH is absolutely important.

Here is a schedule to use for your nutrients. Use this chart at about 50% - 60% strength for Autoflowering plants EC of .7 to 1.2 max. Remember flushing is for Coco not soil.

Start with a Fertigate, water, water, water repeat cycle to start.

 

[mistertim]

Definitely don't flush if you're in soil. Flushing is really only beneficial with coco, in soil you're just going to throw your soil nutes and ph out of whack. I would just leave it as is, they will use up the N eventually. Just don't add any more. As far as the tiger bloom, I doubt you've done any real harm with that, just wait till they are done stretching and then start using it. Unless you've got plants that are vegging for a long time I almost feel like the grow big is unnecessary. Next grow I'm planning to go without and only use it if they start to look N hungry, as I definitely gave my current grow too much N early in and it has caused me all sorts of issues. With using distilled you may find yourself needing to add magnesium, skip the cal mag, as OF and HF both have plenty of calcium. Go with Epsom salt instead. Using distilled you may need a tiny calcium boost later on but more than likely the soil should carry you through just fine without it. This is my mixes, though I do use tap water so I account for about 40ml/l of calcium in that calculation. Is there a reason you're using distilled vs tap?

Thanks for the Epsom salt recommendation! I'd heard that before but wasn't positive as to its use as I'm still trying to take in as much info I can about nutes, NPK, etc. There's a ton of good stuff out there so I'm trying to learn as much as I can without driving myself crazy with information overload.

As far as the distilled vs tap, that was probably just me being a noob as it seems the general consensus is tap water is fine, as long as you let it sit to let chlorine evaporate. My general (over)thinking was that it would be easier to calculate and measure the TDS of my nutes if I was starting with a blank slate and also that the PH of distilled tends to be right around the sweet spot.

I'm guessing once I'm past the brand new "micromanaging" growing stage I'll realize that tap water is just fine and distilled is more of pain than it's woth (I don't buy it; I have a $60 distiller I bought online, but it's still a bit of a chore to do vs tap).

 

[mistertim]

@mistertimWelcome to AFN Your plants look fine. Do not fertilize until the plants ask for it. They will start to turn lime green when it is time. Never feed single nutrients - EVER. You must always add nutrients in balance. Once you get a pot out of balance it is very difficult to get it back. If you continue to use Distilled or RO water when you start feeding on the days you feed add 50 PPM of Cal-mag to the water before you mix in the other nutrients. Be sure to mix them in the order of the chart.

Learn about balance here:

Tutorial - A word on Nutrients

The proper use of “salt” based fertilizer to grow Auto Flowering Cannabis. Salts: Natural and man made any chemical compound formed from the reaction of an acid with a base, with all or part of the hydrogen of the acid replaced by a metal or other cation. Learning how to use salt based...

www.autoflower.org

Get calibration fluid for your PH pen ASAP. PH is absolutely important.

Here is a schedule to use for your nutrients. Use this chart at about 50% - 60% strength for Autoflowering plants EC of .7 to 1.2 max. Remember flushing is for Coco not soil.

Start with a Fertigate, water, water, water repeat cycle to start.

View attachment 1384825

This is great info, thanks. I hadn't really considered needing to add multiple nutrients for balance, so I probably would have messed that up if you hadn't mentioned it!

I did get my PH meter balanced so that's helpful. Though one thing I'm wondering is how much runoff PH matters when it comes to soil grows. On a whim today after watering I decided to test the PH of the runoff and it seemed to be kind of all over the place. One pot was close to 7 and one was close to 5 but they both have the exact same soil mix and got the exact same water.

 

[Teuffelhound]

I have a very similar soil setup and noticed some drooping leaves, but I'm coughing my issue up to low humidity. At Day 19 and I hope I can go for awhile, in the soil, without using nutrients. I have added molasses to my pH'd water and now looking into the epsom salt.

 

[mistertim]

I have a very similar soil setup and noticed some drooping leaves, but I'm coughing my issue up to low humidity. At Day 19 and I hope I can go for awhile, in the soil, without using nutrients. I have added molasses to my pH'd water and now looking into the epsom salt.

I'd think you'd be fine at day 19. My (admittedly complete noob) understanding is with OF or similar you can usually run for at least 4-5 weeks without any additional nutes.

I was going to start adding additional nutes recently until @Mañ'O'Green wisely noted above that there's usually no need to do so in that type of soil setup until the plants "ask" for it. That way you won't have to worry much about burning them.

If they're drooping it could be overwatering or underwatering maybe? What does your watering schedule look like?

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I'd think you'd be fine at day 19. My (admittedly complete noob) understanding is with OF or similar you can usually run for at least 4-5 weeks without any additional nutes.

I was going to start adding additional nutes recently until @Mañ'O'Green wisely noted above that there's usually no need to do so in that type of soil setup until the plants "ask" for it. That way you won't have to worry much about burning them.

If they're drooping it could be overwatering or underwatering maybe? What does your watering schedule look like?

Drooping is normal at some times of the day and some plants droop more than others. When it is not normal it is usually an environmental problem with RH too high or too low for the temperature. Look at VPD and make sure you are in range. If watering/fertigating is causing drooping then you may be letting the media get to dry and the plant is rushing water in to compensate for not getting enough water before it was available. This makes the leaves heavy and they will droop. It is usually not a serious problem.