Thanks muddy, usefull advice. maybe next time around ill give a bit more feed to give more N, cant see it being ph as is always spot on, although i never ph'd my first lr 2s as i was told not too being that all concerned is organic and it buffers itself in soil,i used the canna organic ph down this time round when a little high with nutes mix. next grow i want to use coco so im goin to invest in a ph/ec meter to test feed before, should make it bulletproof in them areas if im correct? Sorry to drive you mad dude much appreciated, gonna get a new camera tommorow after work and post some pics for ya.