Overconfident newbie grower has some questions

[Ruth Bound]

Hi guys ‘n galls, I’m a newbie grower from Europe. This is my second season and unfortunately things went reasonably last year in my first attempt. Yields were not that big, but germinating and going through the seedling phase went pretty smooth. And that had made me a little too overconfident, apparently. Because this year I started without doing any additional research or proper preparation, thinking I would just repeat last year’s success and worry about improvement later on in veg. Wrong!

Germination went pretty well again, using the wet paper towel method in a zip bag hanging vertically. The first week and half they grew pretty fast, but after about two weeks growth pretty much stopped. Although I was (and a part in me still is) convinced that I was watering exactly like I did last year, I probably over watered them. I am growing in pots in my garden, but to make room for the next batch I transplanted them into the soil of my garden. I expect the worst for them am doing it in the name of science.

So I am preparing a new attempt, reading like crazy, and this forum has already been a major source of useful information. Many thanks for that! I wish I had found it a few months ago at the start of quarantine season rather than at the start of growing season, but alas. Count your blessings!

I have a few questions that I have been unable to answer browsing the forums. But first, here’s in short what I intend to do:

• (Germinate two White Widows to use as guinea pigs. One will follow the plan outlined below, the other one I’m gonna put directly in its final pot after germination, just to see what it is like and to practice watering a small baby in a big pot.)
• 5 Days or so after the guinea pigs I will germinate the next batch, maybe start with half a week later, so I don’t mess ‘em all up at once with the same mistake.
• Use 0.4 liter (approximately 12 oz) transparent plastic cups, covered by a 0.4 liter cardboard cup to block light, for the instatransplant method.
• After 7-10 days instatransplant them into their final 11 liter pots.
• Growing outdoors in the garden facing south, moving them during the day to maximize sun hours, putting them inside during the night.
• For the first 7-10 days in the cup I’m using a light soil with little nutrients mixed with about 20% perlite.
• Not sure yet which soil I will use in the final pot, but probably Pokon Organic Potting Mix.
• I will use Biocanna Rhizotonic, Biocanna Boost and I have a bottle of full spectrum nutrients by Pokon, which I intend to use lightly in case I am indeed using the Pokon soil mentioned above, to prevent burning.
• To avoid watering mistakes I’m going exact this time: weighing dry cups, watering carefully until it’s fully saturated and weighing again, so I have a weight range to aim for.

So, not very advanced, keeping it simple. These are my questions:
When mixing in perlite in the light seedling soil, do you moisten the perlite in advance? If so, does it matter how long in advance?

How long in advance should I water the light seedling soil in the cups, so it is not wet and just moist enough?

Should I already use some Rhizotonic in this pre watering of the cup?

The current disaster batch had been in the 11 liter pots for about a week, in Pokon Organic Potting Mix, mixed with 20% perlite. I just took out the plants and they now sit in the soil to die sacrifice themselves for science. Could I use that soil again for the next batch? Due to this flu thing going around the world delivery times for anything hobby related are crazy here and I want to start asap!

Thanks!

 

[automan2]

1: No need to moisten perlite before mixing with your medium but some do to lessen the dust. I use biobizz light mix that already has perlite so perhaps your chosen organic will too.
2. I use a mycos product during germ... in a solo cup that prepared for transplant...sprinkle mycos around the seed area.
Watering seems to be your biggest hurdle....a simple and cheap moisture meter will help tons. The old finger method doesn't get anywhere close to the roots.

 

[slowandeasy]

Hi guys ‘n galls, I’m a newbie grower from the Netherlands. This is my second season and unfortunately things went reasonably last year in my first attempt. Yields were not that big, but germinating and going through the seedling phase went pretty smooth. And that had made me a little too overconfident, apparently. Because this year I started without doing any additional research or proper preparation, thinking I would just repeat last year’s success and worry about improvement later on in veg. Wrong!

Germination went pretty well again, using the wet paper towel method in a zip bag hanging vertically. The first week and half they grew pretty fast, but after about two weeks growth pretty much stopped. Although I was (and a part in me still is) convinced that I was watering exactly like I did last year, I probably over watered them. I am growing in pots in my garden, but to make room for the next batch I transplanted them into the soil of my garden. I expect the worst for them am doing it in the name of science.

So I am preparing a new attempt, reading like crazy, and this forum has already been a major source of useful information. Many thanks for that! I wish I had found it a few months ago at the start of quarantine season rather than at the start of growing season, but alas. Count your blessings!

I have a few questions that I have been unable to answer browsing the forums. But first, here’s in short what I intend to do:

• (Germinate two White Widows to use as guinea pigs. One will follow the plan outlined below, the other one I’m gonna put directly in its final pot after germination, just to see what it is like and to practice watering a small baby in a big pot.)
• 5 Days or so after the guinea pigs I will germinate the next batch, maybe start with half a week later, so I don’t mess ‘em all up at once with the same mistake.
• Use 0.4 liter (approximately 12 oz) transparent plastic cups, covered by a 0.4 liter cardboard cup to block light, for the instatransplant method.
• After 7-10 days instatransplant them into their final 11 liter pots.
• Growing outdoors in the garden facing south, moving them during the day to maximize sun hours, putting them inside during the night.
• For the first 7-10 days in the cup I’m using a light soil with little nutrients mixed with about 20% perlite.
• Not sure yet which soil I will use in the final pot, but probably Pokon Organic Potting Mix.
• I will use Biocanna Rhizotonic, Biocanna Boost and I have a bottle of full spectrum nutrients by Pokon, which I intend to use lightly in case I am indeed using the Pokon soil mentioned above, to prevent burning.
• To avoid watering mistakes I’m going exact this time: weighing dry cups, watering carefully until it’s fully saturated and weighing again, so I have a weight range to aim for.

So, not very advanced, keeping it simple. These are my questions:
When mixing in perlite in the light seedling soil, do you moisten the perlite in advance? If so, does it matter how long in advance?

How long in advance should I water the light seedling soil in the cups, so it is not wet and just moist enough?

Should I already use some Rhizotonic in this pre watering of the cup?

The current disaster batch had been in the 11 liter pots for about a week, in Pokon Organic Potting Mix, mixed with 20% perlite. I just took out the plants and they now sit in the soil to die sacrifice themselves for science. Could I use that soil again for the next batch? Due to this flu thing going around the world delivery times for anything hobby related are crazy here and I want to start asap!

Thanks!

I am willing to help anyone who is willing to listen. However, I will HIGHLY suggest a few things...and if you choose to do it another way you may have repeated failures.
First, germing seeds. Temps are most imortant. Paper towel is useless and a way to actually ruin seeds IMO. Your temps need to be 80-85F for optimal germ. A small cup with water, placed in the dark at 80-85F constant temps will germ quickly. Soak in cup of water for 24-48 hours. Plant directly into your medium, which has been presaokex for 24 hours with a dash of Mycos. Paper towel adds another step and takes longer and can harm root hairs.

Next, you can plant in your 12oz cups if you so choose. But I can already tell your your MAIN PROBLEM without evwn seeing your plants. Instatransplant technique is your problem.... Period. That tech is horrible for roots. Your plant becomes rootbound and your plants want more root space. Either Directly plant in Final pot or do a Proper transplant. Keeping your plant inside a plastic cup and planting it still in tbe cup makes me cringe. That is why you have issues at the same time both grows. Once you are on board with that, I can help you further. But if you are stuck on the instatransplant deal, I cannot help you any further. Some people dont realize how important this is and are afraid of overwatering. I can help you with those concerns, if you directly plant or do an acutal real transplant. Good luckx slow

 

[Ruth Bound]

1: No need to moisten perlite before mixing with your medium but some do to lessen the dust. I use biobizz light mix that already has perlite so perhaps your chosen organic will too.
2. I use a mycos product during germ... in a solo cup that prepared for transplant...sprinkle mycos around the seed area.
Watering seems to be your biggest hurdle....a simple and cheap moisture meter will help tons. The old finger method doesn't get anywhere close to the roots.

Thanks! I have indeed invested in a cheap moisture meter!

 

[Ruth Bound]

I am willing to help anyone who is willing to listen. However, I will HIGHLY suggest a few things...and if you choose to do it another way you may have repeated failures.
First, germing seeds. Temps are most imortant. Paper towel is useless and a way to actually ruin seeds IMO. Your temps need to be 80-85F for optimal germ. A small cup with water, placed in the dark at 80-85F constant temps will germ quickly. Soak in cup of water for 24-48 hours. Plant directly into your medium, which has been presaokex for 24 hours with a dash of Mycos. Paper towel adds another step and takes longer and can harm root hairs.

Next, you can plant in your 12oz cups if you so choose. But I can already tell your your MAIN PROBLEM without evwn seeing your plants. Instatransplant technique is your problem.... Period. That tech is horrible for roots. Your plant becomes rootbound and your plants want more root space. Either Directly plant in Final pot or do a Proper transplant. Keeping your plant inside a plastic cup and planting it still in tbe cup makes me cringe. That is why you have issues at the same time both grows. Once you are on board with that, I can help you further. But if you are stuck on the instatransplant deal, I cannot help you any further. Some people dont realize how important this is and are afraid of overwatering. I can help you with those concerns, if you directly plant or do an acutal real transplant. Good luckx slow

Thanks for the feedback!. When you say that the paper towel method can ruin seeds, do you mean that even seeds that germinate, may be ruined? Because thus far I have a 100% success rate in germinating with the paper towel method. I soak them in a glass of distilled water at 24-25C for about two hours, then between the moist (not wet) paper towels, vertically in a box with temp around 24-25C. I’ve germinated over 20 now, roots neatly growing down vertically. Can they germinate and become weak plants by the paper towel method?


As to your doubts about the instatransplant method. I thought everybody was raving about it. Do roots still get root bound if you make big a** slits like these?

 

[420Forever]

Hi guys ‘n galls, I’m a newbie grower from the Netherlands. This is my second season and unfortunately things went reasonably last year in my first attempt. Yields were not that big, but germinating and going through the seedling phase went pretty smooth. And that had made me a little too overconfident, apparently. Because this year I started without doing any additional research or proper preparation, thinking I would just repeat last year’s success and worry about improvement later on in veg. Wrong!

Germination went pretty well again, using the wet paper towel method in a zip bag hanging vertically. The first week and half they grew pretty fast, but after about two weeks growth pretty much stopped. Although I was (and a part in me still is) convinced that I was watering exactly like I did last year, I probably over watered them. I am growing in pots in my garden, but to make room for the next batch I transplanted them into the soil of my garden. I expect the worst for them am doing it in the name of science.

So I am preparing a new attempt, reading like crazy, and this forum has already been a major source of useful information. Many thanks for that! I wish I had found it a few months ago at the start of quarantine season rather than at the start of growing season, but alas. Count your blessings!

I have a few questions that I have been unable to answer browsing the forums. But first, here’s in short what I intend to do:

• (Germinate two White Widows to use as guinea pigs. One will follow the plan outlined below, the other one I’m gonna put directly in its final pot after germination, just to see what it is like and to practice watering a small baby in a big pot.)
• 5 Days or so after the guinea pigs I will germinate the next batch, maybe start with half a week later, so I don’t mess ‘em all up at once with the same mistake.
• Use 0.4 liter (approximately 12 oz) transparent plastic cups, covered by a 0.4 liter cardboard cup to block light, for the instatransplant method.
• After 7-10 days instatransplant them into their final 11 liter pots.
• Growing outdoors in the garden facing south, moving them during the day to maximize sun hours, putting them inside during the night.
• For the first 7-10 days in the cup I’m using a light soil with little nutrients mixed with about 20% perlite.
• Not sure yet which soil I will use in the final pot, but probably Pokon Organic Potting Mix.
• I will use Biocanna Rhizotonic, Biocanna Boost and I have a bottle of full spectrum nutrients by Pokon, which I intend to use lightly in case I am indeed using the Pokon soil mentioned above, to prevent burning.
• To avoid watering mistakes I’m going exact this time: weighing dry cups, watering carefully until it’s fully saturated and weighing again, so I have a weight range to aim for.

So, not very advanced, keeping it simple. These are my questions:
When mixing in perlite in the light seedling soil, do you moisten the perlite in advance? If so, does it matter how long in advance?

How long in advance should I water the light seedling soil in the cups, so it is not wet and just moist enough?

Should I already use some Rhizotonic in this pre watering of the cup?

The current disaster batch had been in the 11 liter pots for about a week, in Pokon Organic Potting Mix, mixed with 20% perlite. I just took out the plants and they now sit in the soil to die sacrifice themselves for science. Could I use that soil again for the next batch? Due to this flu thing going around the world delivery times for anything hobby related are crazy here and I want to start asap!

Thanks!

heya @Ruth Bound and to afn! long story short, the paper towel thing is a baaaad idea and as far as tranzplantin, well, i jus plain never understood any o' that i jus soak the bean for 36h at room temp, then into the final pot it goez...workz a treat & i've never had a fail so far great commune here to help ya get dialed in & anything u need, jus give a holler

ppp &

 

[Ruth Bound]

heya @Ruth Bound and to afn! long story short, the paper towel thing is a baaaad idea and as far as tranzplantin, well, i jus plain never understood any o' that i jus soak the bean for 36h at room temp, then into the final pot it goez...workz a treat & i've never had a fail so far great commune here to help ya get dialed in & anything u need, jus give a holler

ppp &


View attachment 1190981

Thanks man! But why is the paper towel method a bad idea though? If they germinate they germinate, right? Or not? What am I missing? Does the method of germinating effect the eventual overall health of the plant?

You guys do have me seriously doubting though. I may be suffering from tunnel syndrome regarding my paper towels. I might just give the soak in water then straight into final pot method a serious go. How should I prepare the right moisture level in the pot? A full watering with 10-20% run off a day or two prior to the arrival of the seed?

 

[420Forever]

Thanks man! But why is the paper towel method a bad idea though? If they germinate they germinate, right? Or not? What am I missing? Does the method of germinating effect the eventual overall health of the plant?

You guys do have me seriously doubting though. I may be suffering from tunnel syndrome regarding my paper towels. I might just give the soak in water then straight into final pot method a serious go. How should I prepare the right moisture level in the pot? A full watering with 10-20% run off a day or two prior to the arrival of the seed?

germin in paper towelz can, more often than not (cringez), cauze the lil root feeler hairz to grow into the paper towel, and when it comez time to remove the bean...well, can u fill in the blank-? and sorry, but me don't presoak the soil either i jus put the bean in, keep the soil misted 3 timez daily under a dome & uzually get a sprout in 2d ppp

 

[wh1t3hat]

<snip>

• Use 0.4 liter (approximately 12 oz) transparent plastic cups, covered by a 0.4 liter cardboard cup to block light, for the instatransplant method.

</snip>

As a height-limited grower, thank you for introducing me to this idea!! gunna dig out some solo cups i have....

EDIT: As suggested by other forum members, there are MUCH better alternatives - topping, heavy LST, etc. All without unnecessarily stressing/stunting.

Should I already use some Rhizotonic in this pre watering of the cup?

Instructions say you can "pre-treat growing medium before transplating" (not verbatim) this is what I plan to do for my next grow.

Let's see some pics and welcome to AFN :smoking:

 

[Iriee Vibez]

Hey Ruth Bound! I think this picture illustrates the risks with the paper towel method. The emerging tap root from newly germed seeds are full of little hairs that will get entangled in the paper towel, resulting in 100s being ripped off each time the paper is opened or the seed moved. Obviously, not ideal to unencumbered growth during a critical stage. Lots do it with no problems, but there is a risk.