Nutrient lock, deficiency or what? Hjelp

[CannaDaTaBiz]

So there is something wrong with my plants and i could use some help with diagnosis. Likely its ph problem, seems more like a lockout than actual deficiency.

They are in soil that is part normal grow soil from canna terra with seedling soil(low nute soil with added coco etc so that seedlings wont burn) added to it. Bottom part has normal soil, in middle its a mixture and there is pure seedling soil on top.

I didnt measure my tap waters ph early on as it had been working fine the last time(over 10 years ago..), when it first showed yellowing i thought it was time to start giving more nutes as the top part of soil was lacking. It didnt seem to help, so i measured ph of tap water. It showed 7.9, so i thought that was the problem. Got some ph down formula, gave the plants plenty of 6.2ph water. They showed some signs of overwatering, but seemed to get maybe a bit better. After that first time using a ph pen(milwaukee some cheap model without ec metering) im not sure what happened, but either calibration didnt go right the first time, calibration fluid had gone bad or it if the pen went out of calibration after the first use. It was off about 1.5 the second time i used it.. I calibrated it again then made my mix with biobizz nutes(grow, bloom, top max, root juice, bioheaven) and measured the ph of that mix. It showed 6.2ph. Then i started to think that maybe i had been giving them the right amount of ph all along and problem was elsewhere.. They didnt seem to go any better after giving them that 6.2ph with biobizz nutes and just seem to go slowly worse again.

Major problem is this yellowing between leaf veins on lower leafs, same problems on all plants some a bit worse than others. First and second leafs have either died, almost died or just in bad shape

It has started to creep on lower leafs of side branches also.

Few leafs also show this sort of clawing

And also these sort of spots started appearing on few leafs

In general most of the plants(especially one) look like they could be a bit darker green, but those pics are under hps so they look slightly more yellow/less green than in reality. Its hard to say about growth rate since its my first time with 600w hps and last grows were ages ago.

Another thing that could be at least part of the problem is that temps tend to go a bit high, unless i keep tent doors open(i can do this if i also keep other lights on in the room), have extra fan thats bit too noisy, have room door open and also open windows in other rooms, which i cant do all the time. Temps easily go to 30°C, sometimes even 31°C if i have doors closed etc, but i can keep it around 27°C most the time, lights oit windows open etc can get to 22°C. Soon it will get colder outside and i might be able to get tent temps low enought without taking air from near window to tent via some air ducting, adding and additional small fan for it etc.

Ill get some rhino skin, tarantula and piranha as soon as i get some money hopefully next week and see if they can help fight dmage of high temperaturena bit and balance out the nutrient lock, if thats the case and they wont magically get better the next time i water them with ph balanced water. This time i will have it sitting for a day or so so that the ph can settle for sure before measuring.

I also started wondering if having the nutrient rich and nutrient lacking soils on different levels could make it so that the new growth can get more nutrients from bottom, but if older leafs use older parts of the roots near top and have less nutrients? Or do plants work like this? I know nitrogen is mobile, so it shouldnt matter, but some nutrients arent. Is that just that they cant get out of leaf after they settle there or if they move along some connection from certain part of the roots most aimed to delivering nutrients to specific parts of the plants?

Oh and the plants have been flowering for 1.5 to 2 weeks, so its not a grest time to have maybe a bit stunted growth :/

 

[Quackerjack]

the very bottom picture looks like it needs a little cal mag, id feed less than what you are normally feeding it.

 

[Arthur]

Have you pulled the water report for where you live? That high a pH is usually due to minerals in the water. Could be messing with the availability of your nutrients. Also depending on how much coco has been mixed in, it can grab and hang on to magnesium till its loaded as well.

 

[Proph]

Yellowing in between the leaf veins, 70% of the time is an iron deficiency or lock out. You also need a soil ph probe to accurately check the soil ph. I doubt the ph is the issue at this point though. Most soils have a buffer to help keep the ph stable and in range. Im more interested in what you're feeding them and how much.. It feels more like a nutrient lock out than a ph lockout. Especially with the mixture of soil types.. Keep in mind that if Iron is locked out, can also lock out calcium, magnesium and others (that's probably the rust spots you're starting to see on the leaves). Too much phosphorus can lock out iron.. So Im interested in what the plant is being fed! Here is a mobility chart for reference.

 

[CannaDaTaBiz]

Have you pulled the water report for where you live? That high a pH is usually due to minerals in the water. Could be messing with the availability of your nutrients. Also depending on how much coco has been mixed in, it can grab and hang on to magnesium till its loaded as well.

I found the water report, but have no idea what values are good and google didnt help :/

Yellowing in between the leaf veins, 70% of the time is an iron deficiency or lock out. You also need a soil ph probe to accurately check the soil ph. I doubt the ph is the issue at this point though. Most soils have a buffer to help keep the ph stable and in range. Im more interested in what you're feeding them and how much.. It feels more like a nutrient lock out than a ph lockout. Especially with the mixture of soil types.. Keep in mind that if Iron is locked out, can also lock out calcium, magnesium and others (that's probably the rust spots you're starting to see on the leaves). Too much phosphorus can lock out iron.. So Im interested in what the plant is being fed! Here is a mobility chart for reference.
View attachment 1111461

I have been feeding it biobizz grow, bloom, top max, bio heaven and root juice. Bloom and grow from half to about 85% of what the schedule recommends, as the schedule is made for photos that veg longer than these autos. I started to think that perhaps the seedling soil is also not very rich in micronutes, like mg, ca and iron and because i read that biobizz is also not too rich on mg and ca, dunno about iron. So maybe this could just simply be a deficiency? Problems started after they spent 5 days in 24/7 light few weeks ago and had their growth spurt during it, and also started to flower during that time and some next few days. The one that grew the most during the time also shows most signs of deficiency.

I need to feed them soon and i was thinking of giving them a hefty dose of bio heaven and top max, as they contain some mg, ca and iron and not give them grow or bloom(in case they are suffering from too much phosphorus). I have also been feeding them root juice as people say its good for the roots, even after they stopped developing, but i dont give much of it anymore.

 

[CannaDaTaBiz]

I measured the ph on water that had been standing for about 7 hours and the ph had raised to 8.7. After mixing in top max, bio heaven and root juice(no grow or bloom this time) and let it stand for a while ph came down to 6.8. I balanced it to 6.1 before feeding to make sure it doesent get at all high ph, even tho its starting to seem like ph is not the problem.

Lets see what happens

 

[Waira]

Can you get us normal light pics, that HPS is lousy for diagnostics! ... that said, this looks like Mg defc. especially if it started/is worst on lowers... BioBizz doesn't need, nor is recommended to be pH adjusted, but that has the caveat of what you water is like for pH and more importantly, ppm (hardness, mineral load of CaCO3)...
Seedling soil is beyond weak with nutes by design, and a blend with a regular soil isn't much help either.... BBz nutes are also pretty mild, so depending on the plant size and your feeding frequency, your dilution is OK or maybe too weak now...? Either way , this is not Fe defc., that alwasy starts on the top-most and newest growth, distinct yellowing out, often from the "palms" out to tips... Fe is immobile within the plant, so can't be translocated from older tissues for support of new growth like some other nutes are, that's why it hits newest/tops first and worst....
Certainly the high T can be a contributing factor, but not the cause here,.. what's the RH% like when that hot? Bad VPD (vapor pressure deficit) can make matters worse.. read up in Reference on this, which related transpiration rates with T and RH%, all intimately tied together....

 

[CannaDaTaBiz]

Can you get us normal light pics, that HPS is lousy for diagnostics! ... that said, this looks like Mg defc. especially if it started/is worst on lowers... BioBizz doesn't need, nor is recommended to be pH adjusted, but that has the caveat of what you water is like for pH and more importantly, ppm (hardness, mineral load of CaCO3)...
Seedling soil is beyond weak with nutes by design, and a blend with a regular soil isn't much help either.... BBz nutes are also pretty mild, so depending on the plant size and your feeding frequency, your dilution is OK or maybe too weak now...? Either way , this is not Fe defc., that alwasy starts on the top-most and newest growth, distinct yellowing out, often from the "palms" out to tips... Fe is immobile within the plant, so can't be translocated from older tissues for support of new growth like some other nutes are, that's why it hits newest/tops first and worst....
Certainly the high T can be a contributing factor, but not the cause here,.. what's the RH% like when that hot? Bad VPD (vapor pressure deficit) can make matters worse.. read up in Reference on this, which related transpiration rates with T and RH%, all intimately tied together....

Thanks. Im pretty sure its mg def too now, yes it started from the bottom and started to effect next leaves above the lowest ones after they went all yellow. I went to buy some epsom salt today. Hopefully i can fix the problem with it