Nutrient Chemistry Mixing

[Death The Cultivator]

Have you found anything about adverse reactions using calcium carbonate in lieu of calcium nitrate? I want to use it but cant find any information on it.

I have but everything I have read suggest calcium nitrate is the way to go. I've played with the calculator but now my only issue ratios.

3-1-3 the entire grow
1-2-3 flower
3-2-1 seed to veg

Those are just general but my intent was to create a cloning/Vegetative/flowering solution. I know clones and transitioning plants need more P but that can be supplemented just like extra K in flower. It would be the simplest approach to have a seed/clone - veg - flower formula then add extra NPK/CaMg as needed. The one thing I did find was that companies list P/K as dry mineral percentage rather then ionic so you would take a 5-10-14 and do

10 x .44 to get the actual amount of P
14 X .83 to get actual amount of K

Customhydronutrients has all the ingredients thankfully and the HydroBuddy program has a calculator built in to factor in $ cost to create the formula. My only issue I don't use RO water so I would need to test my tap - 450ppm 8.1ph - and then make adjustments to whatever formula I decide at that point.

I would consider doing a RO/distilled concentration of 5:2 humic/kelp and 5:2 fulvic/kelp with fish hydrolysate/b vitamins/yucca as it's a pain mixing them into the resevoir dry and would make for a good seed/clone soak/Foliar

Though I am not sure but for the most part have you found anything about batch mixing raw minerals like MC does? Is a buffer required? I wouldn't want anything to precipitate. I think I have a decent understanding of it so far but HydroBuddy calculates for ppm so I'm not entirely clear on creating the NPK ratios but I figured the micro would be easiest with a chelated product.

Click Me

 

[Hypathetical Gardener]

I have but everything I have read suggest calcium nitrate is the way to go. I've played with the calculator but now my only issue ratios.

3-1-3 the entire grow
1-2-3 flower
3-2-1 seed to veg

Those are just general but my intent was to create a cloning/Vegetative/flowering solution. I know clones and transitioning plants need more P but that can be supplemented just like extra K in flower. It would be the simplest approach to have a seed/clone - veg - flower formula then add extra NPK/CaMg as needed. The one thing I did find was that companies list P/K as dry mineral percentage rather then ionic so you would take a 5-10-14 and do

10 x .44 to get the actual amount of P
14 X .83 to get actual amount of K

Customhydronutrients has all the ingredients thankfully and the HydroBuddy program has a calculator built in to factor in $ cost to create the formula. My only issue I don't use RO water so I would need to test my tap - 450ppm 8.1ph - and then make adjustments to whatever formula I decide at that point.

I would consider doing a RO/distilled concentration of 5:2 humic/kelp and 5:2 fulvic/kelp with fish hydrolysate/b vitamins/yucca as it's a pain mixing them into the resevoir dry and would make for a good seed/clone soak/Foliar

Though I am not sure but for the most part have you found anything about batch mixing raw minerals like MC does? Is a buffer required? I wouldn't want anything to precipitate. I think I have a decent understanding of it so far but HydroBuddy calculates for ppm so I'm not entirely clear on creating the NPK ratios but I figured the micro would be easiest with a chelated product.

Click Me

Thank you. A wealth of information.
I have to ask, shouldnt your flower nutrient blend stack up to a 1 5 3 ish ratio after mixing? Im seing yours at a 4 3 6. Unless i missed something or am operating on a faulty line of knowledge (always possible) i believe the p is a touch low and n high. I would think along the lines of making the flower blend 0 5 1 or 0 5 2 so when added to the 3 1 3 base you could get 3 6 4/5 ... Or am i wrong on the ratio or mixing part?

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Thank you. A wealth of information.
I have to ask, shouldnt your flower nutrient blend stack up to a 1 5 3 ish ratio after mixing? Im seing yours at a 4 3 6. Unless i missed something or am operating on a faulty line of knowledge (always possible) i believe the p is a touch low and n high. I would think along the lines of making the flower blend 0 5 1 or 0 5 2 so when added to the 3 1 3 base you could get 3 6 4/5 ... Or am i wrong on the ratio or mixing part?

You got me lol. I'm not sure what ratio to work with. I thought of copying Jack's formulas as they have different ratios for each phase. Worst case scenario I just have to adjust it

 

[Hypathetical Gardener]

You got me lol. I'm not sure what ratio to work with. I thought of copying Jack's formulas as they have different ratios for each phase. Worst case scenario I just have to adjust it

Just making sure i had the right info. My source was a growshop owner. He said ideally 5 2 3 in veg and 1 5 4 in flower. And a slow adjustment between the 2 during transition. Those were rough numbers thrown for example. But basically that one wants the nitrogen and phos in veg to flip during flower. With a light increase in k to account for the increase in cal+mag.
This may be wrong or just not exactly right. But it has provided a good general guideline the last couple years.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Just making sure i had the right info. My source was a growshop owner. He said ideally 5 2 3 in veg and 1 5 4 in flower. And a slow adjustment between the 2 during transition. Those were rough numbers thrown for example. But basically that one wants the nitrogen and phos in veg to flip during flower. With a light increase in k to account for the increase in cal+mag.
This may be wrong or just not exactly right. But it has provided a good general guideline the last couple years.

Jack's has for

• Cloning 15-6-17
• Veg 15-5-20 for tap water or 12-4-16 for RO or 5-12-26
• Flower is 10-20-30
• Late flower is 7-15-30

That gives 4 AOI formulas that can be copied into HydroBuddy and probably stored in 4 mason jars with dessicant. The veg formulas are peculiar with the tap and RO being similar but the 5-12-26 is probably different due to the method.

4KG worth of salts at $100+ shipping/tax going with Jack's. I'll play with HB and see what the cost of using customhydronutrients would be comparatively though I am impressed with Jack's commercial approach to their nutrient line.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I love HydroBuddy's concept and if I had infinite space to store stuff I would be all over that! Maybe, I am pretty lazy. I am using the new Mega Crop 2 part with NPK industries Raw products to tweak it a bit. GreenLeaf's online calculator is the bomb.

Mega Crop 2-Part Single Tank Use Calculator

Visit the post for more.

greenleafnutrients.com

 

[LabRat]

The very first hydro nutes I ever used around 1982 were just bags of the raw chemicals. I'm pretty much happy with 3-part AN and MegaCrop. With the auto plants I'm planting outside in a few days it'll be all compost etc unless they look like they need more then I'll try making a tea for them.

Indoors I mostly use ProMix HP or do DWC with the AN.

 

[kennyboy]

Im enjoying the conversation yall are having because I've been thinking the same thing. I have a whole warehouse full of nutrients, I'm a sales rep for a large fertilizer/chemical wholesale distributor. I sell mostly to Turf, Nursery, and Organic farmers and Retail organic stores. In the golf course industry there are all kinds of nutes that can be used to grow canna. You guys might need to redirect your search to a wholesale distributor that sells to golf courses. Here are a few examples. These are in 2 1/2 gal (9.46L) jugs
.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Im enjoying the conversation yall are having because I've been thinking the same thing. I have a whole warehouse full of nutrients, I'm a sales rep for a large fertilizer/chemical wholesale distributor. I sell mostly to Turf, Nursery, and Organic farmers and Retail organic stores. In the golf course industry there are all kinds of nutes that can be used to grow canna. You guys might need to redirect your search to a wholesale distributor that sells to golf courses. Here are a few examples. These are in 2 1/2 gal (9.46L) jugs
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That is interesting! It's not something I haven't heard before as I know of a few beneficial bacteria products that are essentially the same as golf courses.

Do any of them sell raw minerals? Purity isn't a concern but for me at least but several pounds of minerals trumps a pre crafted formula. MC works for many but the formula has been altered several times and that doesn't work for me.

I appreciate the bit of info @Hypathetical Gardener might have had different reasons than me but I think it's a step towards self sufficiency. There's one missing piece though and maybe you can answer - what is the prevalence of additives like salicylic acid, triacontanol, etc? Do you see any benefit at the root zone to consider them?

 

[kennyboy]

That is interesting! It's not something I haven't heard before as I know of a few beneficial bacteria products that are essentially the same as golf courses.

Do any of them sell raw minerals? Purity isn't a concern but for me at least but several pounds of minerals trumps a pre crafted formula. MC works for many but the formula has been altered several times and that doesn't work for me.

I appreciate the bit of info @Hypathetical Gardener might have had different reasons than me but I think it's a step towards self sufficiency. There's one missing piece though and maybe you can answer - what is the prevalence of additives like salicylic acid, triacontanol, etc? Do you see any benefit at the root zone to consider them?

Raw materials? Yes they do. That can vary depending where you are and what the needs are for the climate, soil etc.
For instance I sell 46-0-0 water soluble and 0-0-50 SOP water soluble to an outdoor grower. Both of those are used in golf and horticulture and are always in stock. There are 100's of different macro, micro, organic and microbials in granular, water soluble and liquid forms in almost every turf and hort warehouse.
Salicylic acid is not, as far as I know, sold as a stand alone product because 4-5 years ago they found out if you mix that with a fungicide that it would not only work synergisticly with it, but it would continue to fight pathogens after the chemical had stopped fighting them. But that too is a golf course product and im sure can be found within other nutritional formulations. Triacontanol i'm not familiar with but I'll try to find both of them in other products.