Nute burn? Organic soil

[marijuaman]

I'm assuming it's a K deficiency (or K lockout from high Ca) - but I think we're all waiting for ManoGreen to take a look and confirm He's usually on later at night.

Assuming it is, organic / top-dress sources of potassium include greensand, kelp meal, and wood ash (or even banana peels). Buildaflower has some kelp meal, so it may be providing / releasing some over time, but I'm not sure how much and how quickly.

I'm more of an inorganic / salt-based fertilizer grower. Based on what's in my cabinet, I'd use FF Cultivation Nation / Grow formula, which is 2-1-6 with no Ca and 0.5% Mg. I'd start with maybe 1/4 - 1/2 tsp per gallon and slowly increase to see if the symptoms improve or stop progressing.

As a side note, I'd check out MoG's nutrient tutorial (here) - it gives some great background.

Good info!

As I read more this really does seem more like a deficiency than nute burn. I watered fully this morning, but I just topped all the plants up using a small dose of Real Grower’s Recharge (microbes) with the intent of breaking down any remaining nutrients in the top dress/soil for plant absorption.

Looks like I’ll have to find a high K fertilizer before I gotta water again.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I think the problem stems from using Citric Acid as a PH buffer. When neutralizing the alkaline (calcium carbonate) calcium citrate is formed. This is a form of calcium the plant can uptake. You may be ending up with too much calcium in the pot. Too much calcium locks out the Phosphorous.

 

[marijuaman]

I think the problem stems from using Citric Acid as a PH buffer. When neutralizing the alkaline (calcium carbonate) calcium citrate is formed. This is a form of calcium the plant can uptake. You may be ending up with too much calcium in the pot. Too much calcium locks out the Phosphorous.

View attachment 1374679

Whoa. I never would’ve even considered that to be an issue!

How would you recommend I treat this? Would just plain tap water (around PH 6.8-7.0) going forward be acceptable?

I’ve read some people never PH their tap water for organic soil. I wonder if I made a huge mistake using citric acid the entire grow.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Whoa. I never would’ve even considered that to be an issue!

How would you recommend I treat this? Would just plain tap water (around PH 6.8-7.0) going forward be acceptable?

Use nitric acid in veg it converts to nitrogen and phosphoric acid in bloom it converts to phosphorous.

 

[marijuaman]

Use nitric acid in veg it converts to nitrogen and phosphoric acid in bloom it converts to phosphorous.


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Gotcha! I hope switching to phosphorus PH down for the rest of this grow will clear up this issue

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Gotcha! I hope switching to phosphorus PH down for the rest of this grow will clear up this issue

Things happen fairly slow in an organic grow so it may get worse before it gets better. Just don't do anything drastic.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I think the problem stems from using Citric Acid as a PH buffer.

this^


also
ffof cant go that long in "3 gallon" pots without deficiencies popping up. you would need to add build a flower directly into the ffof with additional aeration and additional top dressings a few weeks in to avoid issues and even then i wouldnt recommend it (3 gallon pots) imo
save yourself some grief .. if your tap water is over 150 ppm, use ro water instead

 

[marijuaman]

this^


also
ffof cant go that long in "3 gallon" pots without deficiencies popping up. you would need to add build a flower directly into the ffof with additional aeration and additional top dressings a few weeks in to avoid issues and even then i wouldnt recommend it imo
save yourself some grief .. if your tap water is over 150 ppm, use ro water instead

I see. So I’m likely dealing with deficiency as well based on this info. This is my first grow and I keep reading about FFOF being too hot, so I didn’t really give the plants anything apart from a single buildaflower top dress going into flower.

“Roots Organics Buddha Bloom” is available to me locally. Planning to use that along with the phosphoric acid PH down as needed starting next watering. Do you see any issues with this approach?

Will have to get a ppm meter.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I see. So I’m likely dealing with deficiency as well based on this info. This is my first grow and I keep reading about FFOF being too hot, so I didn’t really give the plants anything apart from a single buildaflower top dress going into flower.

“Roots Organics Buddha Bloom” is available to me locally. Planning to use that along with the phosphoric acid PH down as needed starting next watering. Do you see any issues with this approach?

Will have to get a ppm meter.

buddha bloom has a ph in the 4 range and its hard to get that to budge, although i dont believe they recommend doing so, so be aware of that. Also, its not readily available to plants and must break down in the soil before it is so its not gonna be a quick fix .ive used buddha bloom quite a bit in the past. not worth it. buildaflower is far superior.. a tea made with builaflower bubbled for 24 hours would be a better option, looks like you may want to consider that. your plants are hungry. 1 top dress is far too little unless it was 4-5 inches deep?

As far as people saying ffof is "hot".. they arent really saying its too nutrient rich, but that its not properly "cooked" / decomposed yet. best practice is dump any bag of ffof into a tote, evenly water it (just enough to sustain microbial activity, not soggy), cover and let it sit for a month.. problem solved.

 

[marijuaman]

buddha bloom has a ph in the 4 range and its hard to get that to budge, although i dont believe they recommend doing so, so be aware of that. Also, its not readily available to plants and must break down before in the soil before it is so its not gonna be a quick fix .ive used buddha bloom quite a bit in the past. not worth it. buildaflower is far superior.. a tea made with builaflower bubbled for 24 hours would be a better option, but its not necessary here i dont believe

As far as people saying ffof is "hot".. they arent really saying its too nutrient rich, but that its not properly "cooked" / decomposed yet. best practice is dump any bag of ffof into a tote, evenly water it (just enough to sustain microbial activity, not soggy), cover and let it sit for a month.. problem solved.

buddha bloom has a ph in the 4 range and its hard to get that to budge, although i dont believe they recommend doing so, so be aware of that. Also, its not readily available to plants and must break down before in the soil before it is so its not gonna be a quick fix .ive used buddha bloom quite a bit in the past. not worth it. buildaflower is far superior.. a tea made with builaflower bubbled for 24 hours would be a better option, looks like you may want to consider that. your plants are hungry. 1 top dress is far too little unless it was 4-5 inches deep?

As far as people saying ffof is "hot".. they arent really saying its too nutrient rich, but that its not properly "cooked" / decomposed yet. best practice is dump any bag of ffof into a tote, evenly water it (just enough to sustain microbial activity, not soggy), cover and let it sit for a month.. problem solved.

Noting all this for the next run… Sounds like I overestimated what a buildaflower top dress could do. It was more like a 1-2 inch top dress.

Thanks for the insight on buddha bloom. The leaf issue has started to really progress in the last 2-3 days. I will give the buildaflower tea a go since that’s what I have on hand. How much bubbled per gal of water would be a good amount?