New to Breeding - Big Plant x Big Plant = Big Plant, Right?

[Gabe]

I am wanting to do some breeding, mostly to reduce my need to order seeds, which I hate and sweat over every time I have to do it.

I am very new to breeding, and think I have found what I want - very big, moderately potent plants. I found two strains I really like, and am planning to cross the strains.

My question is basically this, if I cross a plant with a high yield with another plant that has a high yield, can I pretty much expect to get a high yielding hybrid?

Also, if one plant is much stronger than the other, can I expect the bud to be strong like parent 1, less strong like parent 2, or right in between parents one and 2?

I totally understand that there are several factors in place, but is seems like, in school, I remember learning that if you cross a red hamster with a red hamster, you get a red hamster, right? and if you cross a strong hamster with a fast hamster, you get one that's stronger than the fast one, but slower, and weaker than the strong one, but faster, so I assume that it works similarly with plants.

Please, I want someone to tell me everything, I mean everything, I am mistaken about! Please!

 

[Joe383]

I have had pretty good 50/50 mix of both parents in most crossed but not always. I have had crossed turn out weaker than both parents or not smell as good as either. My Purple M-80 kept the shorter stature of the Purple Kush, the bushier growth of the MI5 and the coloring of both parents with a mix of both there smells leaning more towards the Purple Kush. Purple Diesel X Girl scout cookies is way 50/50 in every way. I have had some though that was almost 1 parent and could not tell much the other parent was there. Original lowryder crossed with an older cross came out almost 100% like lowryder. Just depends on how dominate each ones specific traits are. Most times though F1 is pretty close to 50/50 each parent.

 

[Joe383]

When your making seeds don't stress on ordering seeds. Its good to have new genetics to throw in the mix. I have found good clones if growing photos are especially good for crossing with too. I like clones for making fem seeds with.

 

[oldmanzanita]

It depends on whether the specific traits are dominant or recessive in each of the parents and what combination /frequencies they occur in that strains allele pool.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Not necessarily. It depends on if the "big" gene is dominant or recessive. Even if it is dominant, you can still cross two Big plants and get some small offspring.

Say the trait for being big is B and the smaller one is b.

Bb plants will still be big, even though they carry the b gene. They will be indistinguishable from BB plants, as well, so you won't know if they are BB or Bb, until you breed with them.

Crossing Bb x Bb = 1/4 BB 1/2 Bb 1/4 bb

That means that 1/4 will be big without the small gene, 1/4 will be small without the big gene, and 1/2 will be big with the small gene.

 

[oldmanzanita]

www.ILoveGrowingMarijuana.com ,Has a free copy of the cannabis grow bible which has a thorough explanation of breeding and genetics. I'd check it out if you are looking to learn more.

 

[Gabe]

www.ILoveGrowingMarijuana.com ,Has a free copy of the cannabis grow bible which has a thorough explanation of breeding and genetics. I'd check it out if you are looking to learn more.

Oh, plant care guide bonus, I know what I'm doing tonight!

 

[Gabe]

Not necessarily. It depends on if the "big" gene is dominant or recessive. Even if it is dominant, you can still cross two Big plants and get some small offspring.

Say the trait for being big is B and the smaller one is b.

Bb plants will still be big, even though they carry the b gene. They will be indistinguishable from BB plants, as well, so you won't know if they are BB or Bb, until you breed with them.

Crossing Bb x Bb = 1/4 BB 1/2 Bb 1/4 bb

That means that 1/4 will be big without the small gene, 1/4 will be small without the big gene, and 1/2 will be big with the small gene.

So, if the gene for 'big' is dominant, worst case scenario is 3:1 big:small BUT if the gene for 'big' is recessive, I will get 100% big, as it would be a bb x bb cross (both plants show 'big'), yes?

Seems like at least 75% will be big, possibly up to 100%, and bad genes will be eliminated in the f2 or s1 generation.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

So, if the gene for 'big' is dominant, worst case scenario is 3:1 big:small BUT if the gene for 'big' is recessive, I will get 100% big, as it would be a bb x bb cross (both plants show 'big'), yes?

Seems like at least 75% will be big, possibly up to 100%, and bad genes will be eliminated in the f2 or s1 generation.

Yes, if you have two plants that are expressing a recessive trait, they are homozygous for that trait (bb homozygous recessive / BB homozygous dominant / Bb heterozygous dominant showing), and crossing them will cause all of the offspring to also be homozygous for the recessive trait (bb).

That's only if the "big" trait is monogenetic (caused by one gene). If it is a combination of different genes (node distance, leaf size, bud size, growth rate, width, and foliage density), it'll will be much more difficult to completely stabilize. In that case, repeatedly selfing the biggest and most desirably shaped plant from each generation, would be your best bet.



Generally. when you cross two very different plants, the first generation (f1) will all look the same since all the dominant genes will be expressed, and all the recessive genes will be at best carried, butnot expressed (Bb). F2 is where you see a lot of variation, since all the genes get to recombine in different ways. That's when you want to pick the best individual to keep selfing, or crossing, to make the future generations more stable.

 

[Gabe]

Yes, if you have two plants that are expressing a recessive trait, they are homozygous for that trait (bb homozygous recessive / BB homozygous dominant / Bb heterozygous dominant showing), and crossing them will cause all of the offspring to also be homozygous for the recessive trait (bb).

That's only if the "big" trait is monogenetic (caused by one gene). If it is a combination of different genes (node distance, leaf size, bud size, growth rate, width, and foliage density), it'll will be much more difficult to completely stabilize. In that case, repeatedly selfing the biggest and most desirably shaped plant from each generation, would be your best bet.



Generally. when you cross two very different plants, the first generation (f1) will all look the same since all the dominant genes will be expressed, and all the recessive genes will be at best carried, butnot expressed (Bb). F2 is where you see a lot of variation, since all the genes get to recombine in different ways. That's when you want to pick the best individual to keep selfing, or crossing, to make the future generations more stable.

Honestly, that's as much information as I'm finding anywhere, I usually prefer my science to be more scientific, but it seems like plant genetics is a bit of a crapshoot.