Lighting More brain frying on screw ins

[Olderfart]

I have done some more digging to figure out how my screw in setup compares to commercial alternatives. Here is a summary.

The setup:

Cost ~$250 Cdn (This was bulbs and screw in bases only, The wire and aluminum were salvaged scrap I had sitting around. Other bulk bulbs might be even cheaper with comparable results.)

30 bulbs with a total wattage : 510 watts (measured by me as total from wall, half 2700k, half 5500k)

And here they are:

The results:

Rated lumen output total with diffusers in place: 46,500 lumens (from the manufacturer's ratings)

Corrected for diffuser loss (diffusers were removed) 58,000 lumens (Assumes ~20% loss - https://sigmaluminous.com/comparing-traditional-lighting-to-led-optical-losses/)

Total PAR from all 30 bulbs ~1000 umols/sec (Calculated from average among high and low CRI, and warm and cool spectra leds - https://www.waveformlighting.com/horticulture/convert-lumens-to-ppf-online-calculator - There was little variation across CRI and spectra, and calculations were for typical LED SPDs, so this figure should be close.

Overall efficiency for estimated useable PPF ~1.96 umol/sec/watt (Average quality according to cocoforcannabis.com calculator here: https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/grow-light-calculator/)

Cost efficiency per useable PPF ~$0.45 Cdn/umol/sec (Excellent according to cocoforcannabis.com)

Coverage >1 square meter ( According to cocoforcannabis.com, overkill for my 0.8 square meters, but the excess capacity allows me to adjust spectrum by unscrewing bulbs)

Assuming ~~300 average watts over a 70 day grow (probably reasonable if not excess given my first indoor grow with this setup), and electricity costs of ~$0.124 Cdn/kw hr, total electrical costs for the grow would be ~$62 Cdn.

By comparison, if I was using a Mars Hydro SP3000 (arguably the best home grow light out there for a 2x4 grow, serious hats off to Mars Hydro!), my costs for the grow would be ~$57 Cdn (@2.12umol/s useable PPF as measured by cocoforcannabis.com), for a saving of $5/grow. At that rate, and with one grow per year for me, it would take >75 years to pay for the Mars Hydro ($628 Cdn delivered, tax included for the SP3000). Given that I will not be around that long, DIY seems to have been a reasonable choice for this old grower.

Not everyone is into DIY electrical, not everyone gets electricity at $0.124/kw hr, and not everyone is limited to one grow per year, so the comparison will vary accordingly for other growers. The point remains that DIY can be an effective and cost efficient option for interested growers.

Happy light shopping peeps.

 

[DCLXVI]

Man, that's a heck of an array! Is it very heavy? The whole unit I mean.

 

[Olderfart]

According to my bathroom scale, which may not be particularly accurate at this weight, the two arrays are about 5 lbs each. There are two arrays of 15 bulbs each so I can adjust each side independently if I like. The excellent Vivosun ratchets have zero issues with them, and they are dead easy to adjust.

A person could make the backing plates out of wood safely, but I had the aluminum hanging around from a fuel tank I cut up, so I used that. The weight would likely be similar. The bulb sockets are plastic, so very light. If one went for ceramic, not at all necessary for the low watts involved, the weight would likely be more like 10 lbs.

I haven't measured it, but the wide distribution of the LED's should result in exceptional light distribution inside the 2x4. I would love to get my mitts on a quantum meter for a couple hours, but where I live, and given the price of one, it is not going to happen.

In the meantime, my quantum meters will be green, and have five or so fingers.

Thanks for checking in.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

According to my bathroom scale, which may not be particularly accurate at this weight, the two arrays are about 5 lbs each. There are two arrays of 15 bulbs each so I can adjust each side independently if I like. The excellent Vivosun ratchets have zero issues with them, and they are dead easy to adjust.

A person could make the backing plates out of wood safely, but I had the aluminum hanging around from a fuel tank I cut up, so I used that. The weight would likely be similar. The bulb sockets are plastic, so very light. If one went for ceramic, not at all necessary for the low watts involved, the weight would likely be more like 10 lbs.

I haven't measured it, but the wide distribution of the LED's should result in exceptional light distribution inside the 2x4. I would love to get my mitts on a quantum meter for a couple hours, but where I live, and given the price of one, it is not going to happen.

In the meantime, my quantum meters will be green, and have five or so fingers.

Thanks for checking in.

Wet Tested MQ-510 Full Spectrum Underwater LED PAR Meter Kit - Apogee

Purchase a Wet Tested Apogee MQ-510 PAR Meter Kit and return it for a refund within 60 days1, EVEN IF YOU HAVE USED IT!Kit include PAR Meter, Sensor Wand, and Carry Case! Measure your lights PAR with Apogee's MQ-510 PAR Meter Kit. When you are done, return the meter back to us within 60 days...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I've rented from them twice.

I do agree that DIY is very cost effective with 2.4+umol builds being easily accomplished. Samsung has been blowing out strips at $1 or less for the past few months. Imo, if you can DIY you'll get more customization, better efficacy, and save a couple hundred

 

[karlkutta]

@Olderfart thank you for doing this and showing some more figures and efficiency data. It's a little over my head but I get the idea. I did something like this myself and had good results, what you did here went 10x above and beyond what I did though.

My concern with the bulbs and having the diffuser removed is that many of the bulbs have these two little pins sticking out of the surface. I made the mistake once and shorted them out. Luckily I have my setup on a GFCI so that tripped and that was that, but having this many open lights makes me a little nervous. What is your thought on the shorting potential and fire hazards?

And one more though, the amperage on these total, do you see this being a problem? i am thinking that at about 17watts a bulb, 30 bulbs, 120v you are seeing about 4.5A drawn? with additional equipment on the circuit, could it be an issue? - i am guessing not as long as you are below that 10,15,20Amp rating your breaker is on or so?

thanks for sharing this!

 

[Olderfart]

@Olderfart thank you for doing this and showing some more figures and efficiency data. It's a little over my head but I get the idea. I did something like this myself and had good results, what you did here went 10x above and beyond what I did though.

My concern with the bulbs and having the diffuser removed is that many of the bulbs have these two little pins sticking out of the surface. I made the mistake once and shorted them out. Luckily I have my setup on a GFCI so that tripped and that was that, but having this many open lights makes me a little nervous. What is your thought on the shorting potential and fire hazards?

And one more though, the amperage on these total, do you see this being a problem? i am thinking that at about 17watts a bulb, 30 bulbs, 120v you are seeing about 4.5A drawn? with additional equipment on the circuit, could it be an issue? - i am guessing not as long as you are below that 10,15,20Amp rating your breaker is on or so?

thanks for sharing this!

Really good points @karlkutta.

The two pins you mention are something to be careful about. On my bulbs, they are powered at ~83 volts DC, which hypothetically at least could give you a nasty shock, and as you found out, shorting them can blow a breaker. I expect that the breaker event was too much current rather than a ground fault, but that is probably not important. Bottom line is that shorting them is not a good idea. As to getting a shock, I suspect that in reality, unless one's body was grounded somewhere, like standing in water with bare feet for illustration, all you would feel is a local shock where you shorted the pins with your skin. OTOH, this stuff is complicated, so best not try this. I suggest that the issue can be easily dealt with by putting a dab of silicone over the pins and the electrical contacts immediately adjacent to their bases. In any case, with these bulbs, it might be best not to wear one's tin foil hat while tending the ladies.

As to the amperage, the total for my growdrobe might be as much as ~10amps, ~4.2 for the grow light (actually less because I am unlikely to simultaneously use all bulbs), ~ 3.3 for the small heater, and another 3 or so for the fans. I haven't actually measured everything together because I no longer have the clamp-on meter that I checked the grow light with. At any rate, my 2x4 setup seems within the capacity of a single 15 amp circuit. If I needed to add more load, I would separate the feed to the heater, which would be easy for me to do the way the shop is wired. Other peeps would have to govern their setup according to their specific total load, although I doubt anyone is likely to have an issue with a 2x4 unless they were trying to run a larger heater and/or AC off the same circuit. Definitely something to think about, but not specifically due to the DIY bit.

Thanks a lot for your observations, especially for bringing up the point about the pins that I missed mentioning in my earlier missives on this mischief.

Happy growing grobro.

 

[Olderfart]

Wet Tested MQ-510 Full Spectrum Underwater LED PAR Meter Kit - Apogee

Purchase a Wet Tested Apogee MQ-510 PAR Meter Kit and return it for a refund within 60 days1, EVEN IF YOU HAVE USED IT!Kit include PAR Meter, Sensor Wand, and Carry Case! Measure your lights PAR with Apogee's MQ-510 PAR Meter Kit. When you are done, return the meter back to us within 60 days...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I've rented from them twice.

I do agree that DIY is very cost effective with 2.4+umol builds being easily accomplished. Samsung has been blowing out strips at $1 or less for the past few months. Imo, if you can DIY you'll get more customization, better efficacy, and save a couple hundred

I would love to rent their unit, and had checked their website a while ago. Sadly, this is from their rental policy:

"Rental items are only available to the contiguous 48 USA at this time."

As far as I have been able to determine, rental of one of these units is not available in Canada, but if anyone here knows otherwise, I might be keen.

As to the higher efficiency strips you mentioned, I love what you have been doing with them. I had a look at that option, as well as putting my own COB's together, and nearly went that way, but prices, delivery times, and shipping costs were just enough to tip me to local options. Also, I really appreciate that my setup has distributed ballasting, so it is not vulnerable to a ballast failure or other generalized light failure which could bugger a grow. With the screw ins, a local fix is always a few minutes away, and feasible failures can't do harm to a grow because it is seriously unlikely that more than a bulb or two would be involved. All considered, I am really glad that I went with the screwins.

But I sure would love to get a quantum meter beneath them.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I would love to rent their unit, and had checked their website a while ago. Sadly, this is from their rental policy:

"Rental items are only available to the contiguous 48 USA at this time."

As far as I have been able to determine, rental of one of these units is not available in Canada, but if anyone here knows otherwise, I might be keen.

As to the higher efficiency strips you mentioned, I love what you have been doing with them. I had a look at that option, as well as putting my own COB's together, and nearly went that way, but prices, delivery times, and shipping costs were just enough to tip me to local options. Also, I really appreciate that my setup has distributed ballasting, so it is not vulnerable to a ballast failure or other generalized light failure which could bugger a grow. With the screw ins, a local fix is always a few minutes away, and feasible failures can't do harm to a grow because it is seriously unlikely that more than a bulb or two would be involved. All considered, I am really glad that I went with the screwins.

But I sure would love to get a quantum meter beneath them.

Oh snap! I didn't know you were in Canada.

With the SIL you have the benefit of diffusion for better proximity. When I get a PAR meter we'll have to figure something out I'm curious about your total PPFD.

I've always wanted to build cobs but all the hardware is expensive compared to the cob itself. The quantum board 4 packs are a good value+inventronics driver gets you sub $350 on the US side.

It sucked during my last grow my Meanwell went out. Switched to a HPS for a few days but it was definitely an inconvenience.

Here's another site https://www.podyourreef.com/product...rental-full-spectrum-underwater-quantum-meter

 

[Olderfart]

Hey Damian,

Sorry to hear about the Meanwell crapping out. I would not have expected a failure from them, they have good gear. Anyway, that is exactly the sort of thing my setup avoids.

Yeah, the cost of the hardware to set up the COBs was the deal breaker for me. By the time one paid for the heat sinks, mounts, reflectors, and drivers the price no longer made sense to me. The strips that you use are a heck of a lot better idea in my opinion. Also, I know that lots of peeps here do well with COBs, but I prefer a more distributed light source because I think it delivers light deeper into the canopy, particularly if you have enough power to keep the lights further away.

Different strokes. Lots of solutions work just fine if done right.

 

[Olderfart]

Oh snap! I didn't know you were in Canada.

With the SIL you have the benefit of diffusion for better proximity. When I get a PAR meter we'll have to figure something out I'm curious about your total PPFD.

I've always wanted to build cobs but all the hardware is expensive compared to the cob itself. The quantum board 4 packs are a good value+inventronics driver gets you sub $350 on the US side.

It sucked during my last grow my Meanwell went out. Switched to a HPS for a few days but it was definitely an inconvenience.

Here's another site https://www.podyourreef.com/product...rental-full-spectrum-underwater-quantum-meter

I checked the site you sent the link to, and given that rental includes shipping time, getting it back and forth across the border would be too much of a time risk at $15US/day, and loss of the deposit after 10 days. If I can't rent one in Canada, it ain't gonna hoppen. Sad.