Mag deficiency or nitrogen?

[Tizer108]

It has happened (week 7) ‍
Dark veins and yellow leaf.
I’ve been using biobizz light with the full nute schedule, had slight yellowing of leaves a few weeks ago so introduced biobizz cal-mag with the deficiency dosage which set things right but now it seems to have come back with a vengeance with a new leaf dropping off compleatly after a couple days.

is it recommended to up the dosage or the cal mag as she may still not be getting enough mag.. or do a couple flushes and go again?

tia

 

[St. Tom]

your best bet my friend posts some pics it will get you a better response

 

[Tizer108]

 

[Tizer108]

Water 3 times per week with biobizz nutes at the mo 3ml grow, 3ml bloom, 1ml top max, 4ml heaven, 3ml alg-a-mic, 4ml acti-Vera and since deficiency occurred 0.8ml cal mag (all per litre)

Spring water ph’d after nute mix to 6.3/6.4
Run off is the same

 

[Tizer108]

Yeah I have only up to the dosage that the schedule says for the last couple weeks, I had been running at half of the recommended dosage...
It’s now making me think that this is what has caused the issue with the mag deficiency. Tho the signs suggest that she isn’t getting enough mag but then again over dosage of cal can cause mag not to be absorbed as efficiently?....
I will look at getting some more pics later

 

[Dr Fluff]

EC is key when you want help. Im not familiar with Biobizz, but I checked their feedschedule and you are pretty much according to that.
That being said, with Advanced Nutrients I use 1/4 of what they recommend. They're businessmen.

View attachment 1206272
400ppm(0.8EC), allways. Lots of water, she be thirsty.
1ml/L instead of 4. I tried 2, but got burn(Im sure you know, feeding too much often gives symptoms of deficiencies).

And again... pics

Biobizz is a organic plant nutrient, as it is not composed of mineral salts, it is not possible to measure PPM or EC.

When quoting PPM you also need to state on which PPM scale that quote is based.
I liked that you included an EC value, this lead me to see that you are using the 500 Scale (Hanna) also called "TDS" (Total Dissolved Solids).
The USA mostly uses the 500 scale and Europeans use the 700 scale,.
There is also a 640 scale but it isn't used much (Eutech).
So when you quote PPM's to someone and they are using a different scale, they could easily make a catastrophic mistake because the scale being quoted wasn't clarified as to which scale was being used.
I worked out the scale from the EC quoted but a novice wouldn't know this.
@Waira could you link to the PPM/EC post you put up please (the one you got from me in our PM) I'm not sure where you posted it!
Further to the above American nutes generally quote PPM's in 500 scale and European nutes quote PPM's in 700 scale.

Manufacturer = Scale

Advanced Nutrients=700 scale
Botanicare=700 scale
CES/Cutting Edge Solutions=500 scale
Dutch Master=500 scale
Dyna-Gro=500 scale
FoxFarm=700 scale using dechlorinated tap water
General Hydroponics =500 scale using reverse osmosis water
General Organics =500 scale using reverse osmosis water
House & Garden =700 scale
Humboldt Nutrients=500 scale
Hydro Organics/Earth Juice =500 scale
Nectar for the Gods=700 scale
Rock Nutrients=700 scale
Roots Organics=500 scale
Rx Green Solutions=500 scale using distilled water
Soul=500 scale
Technaflora =500 scale

Seeing as Biobizz is an Organic nutrient mostly made from sugar beet extract and when used in soil it is hard tom over feed when following the guidance. Mineral salt based nutrients on the other hand are many time concentrated and this is where caution is need when measuring your plant feed.
Biobizz say it contains everything you need to grow but having been a BioBizz grower I can tell you that you should use Calmag from the start, I like to use one that also includes iron.

To get CalMag to where it is needed straight away the best way to apply it is via foliar spray.
The CalMag is absorbed through the leaf wall and this is faster than water it in and allowing to move through the plant.
Follow the advice for foliar feeding your CalMag on the bottle or contact the manufacturer via email.
Magnesium is what is call a "mobile" nutrient which mean it can move around the plant as needed.
This is why mag def is see in the older leaves first, this because the mag in that older leaf has been moved up to the younger leaves which need it in order to grow properly.

Generally speaking over feeding does two main things first, before any lock out issues start (unless you poured way way to much nutes in your feed).
Toxic Nitrification (growth stage), where the leaves claw (severely curl under) and can appear very dark green and then there is general overfeeding where you get leaf tip scorch where the tips turn yellow/brown.

With Organic feed it is harder to over feed if you follow the guidelines and then there is the added bonus of soil acting as a buffer.
In hydro (inc coco) there is no buffer and if using mineral salts even more care needs to be taken.

So if you get nute burn with BioBizz back off the feed a little and get a feel for what your plant wants, some strains are just fussy feeders, often it is sativas and high sativa hybrids, that tend to be more fussy!

 

[Tizer108]

Thanks for the detailed reply @arty zan!
you have bassicly explained what has happened to the grow from slight clawing in veg stage (which is now ok) and what is happening now with the mag def...
would It be a good idea to continue to feed scheduled nutes at a reduced dosage and apply the cal mag as a foliage spray, or give a couple ph’d flushes aswell as cal mag spray then carry on the feeding schedule?
Many thanks

 

[Dr Fluff]

Thanks for clearing that up! I obviously assumed Biobizz was mineralbased, sorry for the confusion. Will stick to hydro-threads in the future

No worries bud.
You mentioned you hadn't used BioBizz before and you gave the best advice you could under the circumstances.
Credit due, you reached out and tried to help another AFN member, that is exactly what AFN is about, helping your fellow growers.
Harry the Hairy monster represents this helpful attitude and used to be gives as a badge called "you have the vibe"!
so I'll say thank you to you, for being a helpful member!

 

[Dr Fluff]

Thanks for the detailed reply @arty zan!
you have bassicly explained what has happened to the grow from slight clawing in veg stage (which is now ok) and what is happening now with the mag def...
would It be a good idea to continue to feed scheduled nutes at a reduced dosage and apply the cal mag as a foliage spray, or give a couple ph’d flushes aswell as cal mag spray then carry on the feeding schedule?
Many thanks

So when you first see mag def, I will spray the plant to get some mag on all the leaves.
I would then add some CalMag to you feed at the rate that is advised on the bottle.
Reduce the BioBizz by 1 ml per liter and see how that goes,
Remember there is a feed chart for BioBizz Light-Mix as well as a feed chart for the BioBizz All-Mix.
Light-Mix has a lot lower nute profile, this means you can be more creative with your feed program, All-Mix has more nutes in the soil and a more carefully followed feed program should be used.
If you are using another soil to grow in then you need to think about how much nutrient are contained in that soil.
Most soils come with 3-6 weeks of feed in them and primarily for the vegetative stage, so they will contain a good amount of Nitrogen.
If in doubt check it out - and Email to the manufacturer should give you the info you want, after all they want to keep you as a customer.
If the clawing isn't to bad , just reduce feed levels a bit and you can always work back up as the plant gets bigger and is demanding more food.
I would only flush if it was a really bad situation and if you do, do it with a weak solution of feed rather than just plain water. This way it gives the slats something to attach to and PH'd of course.
I'm gonna @Waira he is a very busy boy but knows even more than I do when it comes to plant issues!
He may have more advice on flushing as it isn't something I ever do!
Good luck to you brother

 

[Waira]

@arty zan -- it's here my man! Even so, you dropped the whole thing on him here anyway-

.... It's in Reference and I think Hydro sections....

@Tizer108 ...LED light screw with color and such, harder to diagnose, can you take normal light pics (whole plant too plz), or flash to wash out the LED color?
... off the cuff I'd say that's looking more like N defc to me than Mg defc.- maybe!... being low down, the pattern of color loss, and the dropping off thing when it's tapped out,...
BioBizz is pretty mild stuff, and being "organic", it's not fast acting in some regards,.. likely this is a simple lack-off defc., which you have addressed with more feeds... A few faded leaves is no worry really, and BTW is this plant blooming? Some fade is normal....
@Kenan , help is welcome! If you are truly well versed and skilled in hydro', help there in particular... I'm a dirt guy, but I've had to learn some hydro' ropes to deal with things in here.... In this case, these nutes are not well measured by EC/TDS because of their organic base nature, some of the nute components are not ionic in chemical nature, but need to be converted into them for proper uptake!
....Tizer, are you using inoculants and/or enzymes? The microbe herd is your special friend here in organics, they are key to the whole gig, making/breaking things into absorbable forms..... Enzymes help tackle other more difficult, slow degrading materials get busted up into other helpful things....