Light Burn(UVB), Magnesium Deficiency, Other??? Man O Green...SOS!!!

[Mañ'O'Green]

What ever the problem is it is not extreme. We need to take it from the top and nip this in the bud - so to speak. I will move this to the infirmary for more eyes. You r picture are not great but take any new ones in daylight 5000k color - turn off the grow lights.

I need to know Temperature and RH%, PH, water source and what your feeding, amounts frequency. Did they get dry? and all of the details you can give me. Some of this has been expressed but it is better if I can see it all in one post.

Please fill in this form: (copy and paste part is below, this first one tell what specifically to include)

-Problem: (brief description)
-Medium/grow method: soil; soilless-- coco, or peat based like Promix, etc. (please provide the actual product name); DWC, NFT, etc.
-Feed and supplements used: include brand, dosage/strength, frequency of feeding and watering (alone); method-- by hand, drippers, rercirc' or drain-to-waste,... N-P-K #'s too if you can!
-Water source: RO/DI; tap- dechlorinated-?..... EC or TDS reading; pH (don't bother with this on RO/DI, do bother with TDS/EC though to confirm it's working well enough)
-Strain and age
-Climate: night and day ambient T and RH%; res' temperatures; any extremes in T/RH% exposure
- Light used: HID, LED, COB, combo of,... wattage; light cycle hours (20/4, 18/6 , etc.); distance to tops....
-Additional info: PH in the root zone. How long have the plants been affected?...How fast did symptoms appear?... Anything else you think might be relevant..

--Pictures including WHOLE PLANT PICS, and troubled leaves.. use normal light or flash as other light sources ruin color rendering, critical for diagnostics! Turn off the grow lights.

✂ - - - - - - - - - - -
(copy and paste)-->

Problem:

Medium/grow method:

Feed: and supplements used:

water source:

PH in the root zone:

Strain/age:

light used:

Climate:

Additional info:

 

[Cerebral Goo]

grow media
humidity
temperature ?

Overall looks healthy... Im not a fan of letting plants dry out, especially in cloth pots even moisture is a better goal imo. Seems like a little light bleaching and that one pic of the spots looks like mild cal def... The leaf serrations curling for me at least, usually indicates slight humidity / heat and maybe even light issues. Next watering check the ppm and ph of the runoff maybe if you have the instruments to do so and see if youre feeding properly

@Mañ'O'Green is the bottled nutes guru and should have an idea about the feed you are giving. Maybe he will pop in!

Thanks Tom:

medium/feed
I'm in a coco soil blend. 70% Canna Coco brick mixed with 30% perlite and that is mixed with Roots Organic original at a 70/30 mix. lots of people on this board have said that was a bad idea, but the ship had already left the shore by the time I got on AFN... I based that off of a couple people that are growing monsters in that mix with flora flex and to not have to water/feed as much since soil retains moisture longer and I'm super busy to say the least. Took a half day to myself today!
Flora flex has super high ec(ppm). They call for ECs at 2.4 and up to 3.0 in certain weeks! I'm sort of in no mans land. All trial and error at this point with little to no documentation to guide. Being a noob doesn't help! Initially I was trying to follow various recommended ppm from people here, but that caused underfeeding which caused other issues. The ladies seemed happy when I upped the feed 3g b1 and 3g b2 and started to add 1 1/2 to 2 ml of calmag and 2 ml fulvic a gallon. I have Botanicare calmag as well as calcium nitrate and epsom salt as I have had to address different issues. I upped the cal and mag (not the botanicare, trying to keep the nitrogen down) this morning to 2.5ml a gallon. I'm feeding twice a day at this point, so the plants are never that dry. In 3 gallon Rain Science pots and feeding half a gallon in the am and to 30% runoff at night. Also using Silicium mono silicic acid , and fulvic to help flush salts and uptake nutes.

Temp/humidity
I'm fairly steady at 80 to 83*, leaf temps of 78 to 79*, and 50-54% humidity which is seems to be pretty close to a good vpd

The light bleaching(if that is the case) was my main concern. Man O Green has the same uvb light and said he had fried plants before so I was looking to him since he's been down that road. Started off what I thought was low at 3 minutes per hour for 4 hours at mid light cycle to harden them off. Crazy how things so small can can be so much!
With your comments and my assumption, I will go with too much ppfd in general combined with with the uvb taking things over the edge...with a cal issue as well.
Will be switching to soil or some kind of auto pot with mega crop or Jacks next time. Lots of documentation on grows. So, should be a lot less "no man's land"
Thanks for your reply and sorry to be long winded!!!

 

[Cerebral Goo]

Wrong area thos should be In the infirmary maybe.
For faster and better replys check this out
Problem: (brief description)
-Medium/grow method: soil; soilless-- coco, or peat based like Promix, etc. (please provide the actual product name); DWC, NFT, etc.
-Feed and supplements used: include brand, dosage/strength, frequency of feeding and watering (alone); method-- by hand, drippers, rercirc' or drain-to-waste,... N-P-K #'s too if you can!
-Water source: RO/DI; tap- dechlorinated-?..... EC or TDS reading; pH (don't bother with this on RO/DI, do bother with TDS/EC though to confirm it's working well enough)
-Strain and age
-Climate: night and day ambient T and RH%; res' temperatures; any extremes in T/RH% exposure
- Light used: HID, LED, COB, combo of,... wattage; light cycle hours (20/4, 18/6 , etc.); distance to tops....
-Additional info: How long have the plants been affected?...How fast did symptoms appear?... Anything else you think might be relevant..

--Pictures including WHOLE PLANT PICS, and troubled leaves.. use normal light or flash as other light sources ruin color rendering, critical for diagnostics!

Understood and thanks for the protocol

 

[Cerebral Goo]

What ever the problem is it is not extreme. We need to take it from the top and nip this in the bud - so to speak. I will move this to the infirmary for more eyes. You r picture are not great but take any new ones in daylight 5000k color - turn off the grow lights.

I need to know Temperature and RH%, PH, water source and what your feeding, amounts frequency. Did they get dry? and all of the details you can give me. Some of this has been expressed but it is better if I can see it all in one post.

Please fill in this form: (copy and paste part is below, this first one tell what specifically to include)

-Problem: (brief description)
-Medium/grow method: soil; soilless-- coco, or peat based like Promix, etc. (please provide the actual product name); DWC, NFT, etc.
-Feed and supplements used: include brand, dosage/strength, frequency of feeding and watering (alone); method-- by hand, drippers, rercirc' or drain-to-waste,... N-P-K #'s too if you can!
-Water source: RO/DI; tap- dechlorinated-?..... EC or TDS reading; pH (don't bother with this on RO/DI, do bother with TDS/EC though to confirm it's working well enough)
-Strain and age
-Climate: night and day ambient T and RH%; res' temperatures; any extremes in T/RH% exposure
- Light used: HID, LED, COB, combo of,... wattage; light cycle hours (20/4, 18/6 , etc.); distance to tops....
-Additional info: PH in the root zone. How long have the plants been affected?...How fast did symptoms appear?... Anything else you think might be relevant..

--Pictures including WHOLE PLANT PICS, and troubled leaves.. use normal light or flash as other light sources ruin color rendering, critical for diagnostics! Turn off the grow lights.

✂ - - - - - - - - - - -
(copy and paste)-->

Problem:

Medium/grow method:

Feed: and supplements used:

water source:

PH in the root zone:

Strain/age:

light used:

Climate:

Additional info:

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Thanks Tom:

medium/feed
I'm in a coco soil blend. 70% Canna Coco brick mixed with 30% perlite and that is mixed with Roots Organic original at a 70/30 mix. lots of people on this board have said that was a bad idea, but the ship had already left the shore by the time I got on AFN... I based that off of a couple people that are growing monsters in that mix with flora flex and to not have to water/feed as much since soil retains moisture longer and I'm super busy to say the least. Took a half day to myself today!
Flora flex has super high ec(ppm). They call for ECs at 2.4 and up to 3.0 in certain weeks! I'm sort of in no mans land. All trial and error at this point with little to no documentation to guide. Being a noob doesn't help! Initially I was trying to follow various recommended ppm from people here, but that caused underfeeding which caused other issues. The ladies seemed happy when I upped the feed 3g b1 and 3g b2 and started to add 1 1/2 to 2 ml of calmag and 2 ml fulvic a gallon. I have Botanicare calmag as well as calcium nitrate and epsom salt as I have had to address different issues. I upped the cal and mag (not the botanicare, trying to keep the nitrogen down) this morning to 2.5ml a gallon. I'm feeding twice a day at this point, so the plants are never that dry. In 3 gallon Rain Science pots and feeding half a gallon in the am and to 30% runoff at night. Also using Silicium mono silicic acid , and fulvic to help flush salts and uptake nutes.

Temp/humidity
I'm fairly steady at 80 to 83*, leaf temps of 78 to 79*, and 50-54% humidity which is seems to be pretty close to a good vpd

The light bleaching(if that is the case) was my main concern. Man O Green has the same uvb light and said he had fried plants before so I was looking to him since he's been down that road. Started off what I thought was low at 3 minutes per hour for 4 hours at mid light cycle to harden them off. Crazy how things so small can can be so much!
With your comments and my assumption, I will go with too much ppfd in general combined with with the uvb taking things over the edge...with a cal issue as well.
Will be switching to soil or some kind of auto pot with mega crop or Jacks next time. Lots of documentation on grows. So, should be a lot less "no man's land"
Thanks for your reply and sorry to be long winded!!!

When I burned my plants with the Pure UV I was running them for 4 hours a day

 

[Cerebral Goo]

When I burned my plants with the Pure UV I was running them for 4 hours a day

Sorry for the delay in saying thank you for the reply. Life gave me huge bitch slap last week and haven't been here for a few. Lost a good amigo in CDMX and horticulture was on the bottom of the list...
Talked to a buddy who is a professional farmer in Mendicino and his advice has seemed to help out. I got lazy with my limited time and didn't check the EC for every plant for a few days which caused a lockout in that plant. He said calcium deficiency makes plants more sensitive to light and with the already high ppfd, the combo probably fried the plant with the addition of the UVB.
All other plants are fine, but that one still doesn't like the uvb. I now take it out when I hit them with UVB as it progressed a little more. After taking it out when the UVB is on, no more progression.

Thanks again

 

[GreenBean]

I'm also running FloraFlex. And coincidentally, I always mix my coco with soil, I used to do 50/50 and now it's 70/30 like yourself. I make my coco DIY with perlite and vermiculite and then use 70% of that w/ 30% soil. Never had issues personally. Never really let it dry out, but in the veg stages, I can go a day without a feed here and there.

This is my first run with FloraFlex and I'm just entering flower on the first plant myself. When you were running the V formula, did you follow the full tilt schedule exactly week by week? I am running the Full Tilt/ No Cal Mag schedule and have kept the V at the week 1 dose the entire time. For the first 10 days above ground I ramp the strength up and by around day 10 I'm at 100% strength of the Week 1 schedule and I just stay there until flower. Just curious if you were dosing according to their schedule and it came into play down the line?

Are you using the bulky B as well? Or just V and B w/ full tilt?

FloraFlex can be a little confusing with their schedules. They have the "old normal" schedule, where you would EC with Cal Mag at around 0.3? Then add nutes. Then they had the full tilt no cal mag, and honestly there's enough cal and mag in the nutes. And now they have the full tilt/ no cal mag w/ bulky B. I'm on the latter.

 

[Cerebral Goo]

I'm also running FloraFlex. And coincidentally, I always mix my coco with soil, I used to do 50/50 and now it's 70/30 like yourself. I make my coco DIY with perlite and vermiculite and then use 70% of that w/ 30% soil. Never had issues personally. Never really let it dry out, but in the veg stages, I can go a day without a feed here and there.

This is my first run with FloraFlex and I'm just entering flower on the first plant myself. When you were running the V formula, did you follow the full tilt schedule exactly week by week? I am running the Full Tilt/ No Cal Mag schedule and have kept the V at the week 1 dose the entire time. For the first 10 days above ground I ramp the strength up and by around day 10 I'm at 100% strength of the Week 1 schedule and I just stay there until flower. Just curious if you were dosing according to their schedule and it came into play down the line?

Are you using the bulky B as well? Or just V and B w/ full tilt?

FloraFlex can be a little confusing with their schedules. They have the "old normal" schedule, where you would EC with Cal Mag at around 0.3? Then add nutes. Then they had the full tilt no cal mag, and honestly there's enough cal and mag in the nutes. And now they have the full tilt/ no cal mag w/ bulky B. I'm on the latter.

I didn't go by their charts at first as I was advised on another site to go by PPM and that was too low. I ended up having deficiencies at about week 4. I switched to 3 grams each of bloom with a little extra epsom salt and 2ml per gallon of Fulvic.(check Arucamba Autoflowers schedule. He bumps his grams up in flower) After that and checking ppm for a week or so, I got lazy and didn't measure the ppm. Then had a lockout. My EC was close to 4! I found that if I feed/feed/ mix 1gram of each per gallon with microbes( Recharge or Tribus) worked fairly well. I would also run an xtra gallon of ph'd water through and then a gallon of the 1 gram mix that would knock the EC down enough. Repeat...No Bulky B and have only been adding 1.25 grams each of B1/B2 with 6 grams full tilt the last week (week 9) trying to lower the nitrogen. Oddly enough the plants look really healthy and buds are really swelling!
Definitely don't do what I did!!! No reason to reinvent the wheel!!! Should have done more homework initially. Was warned once I got on this site that mixing in the soil is a bad idea. Originally did it to not have to water as much as I have limited time. It seems as though the coco/soil has worked for you?
Have a week or two till chop and look ok for the first grow in 30 years. I will do one more run with and hand watering . However, ill switch to straight coco and follow their chart. After that, I need to get a hydro setup as I don't have the proper time to devote to the cause. I will probably switch to Jack's or Mega Crop for that.
I'll hit you up and see how you are doing in the future. Also, will let you know how mine ends. If you have other questions feel free, but I'm by far not the best person to ask!!!

 

[GreenBean]

Interesting. Yeah, I’ve literally used a coco/soil mix for years in all of my gardening. Never had issues including canna growing. Which I’ve been doing for a good while. I’ve even done side by side tests running 100% coco, 50/50 coco/homemade compost, 50/50 store bought soil (like a happy frog), even 50/50 with the dryest, nastiest yard dirt I could find in the darkest corner of my yard. Very little difference in end results. Only thing that varied would be water retention with the 50/50 yard dirt retaining the most. Obviously watering/feeding had to be adjusted with different mediums.

I used to run MSU fertilizer before Floraflex which is another higher concentrated nutrient. Floraflex is located literally around the corner from me, I pass by it all the time so decided to give it a try. I’ve been super happy with it.

I monitor my ph an EC all the time though. My water EC with the V nutes is around 2.4 and with B around 2.2. Always water to runoff and check that, if I think I’m seeing buildup around the bottom of the pot, I water a time or 2 with a very weak nutrient solution.

I’ve been super happy with the Floraflex. Even been dabbling with the foliar sprays. Just think it’s important to observe and know when you have to back off and lower the doses. Some of the amounts for later weeks on their schedule are a little too high, even for me, I’m always experimenting to see how much I can push. So I essentially stick with their week 1 schedules the entire time. That’s why I was asking if you were you were following their schedule, it looked like your plants were seeing a lot of nitrogen which I thought may have caused the issues down the line.

 

[Cerebral Goo]

Interesting. Yeah, I’ve literally used a coco/soil mix for years in all of my gardening. Never had issues including canna growing. Which I’ve been doing for a good while. I’ve even done side by side tests running 100% coco, 50/50 coco/homemade compost, 50/50 store bought soil (like a happy frog), even 50/50 with the dryest, nastiest yard dirt I could find in the darkest corner of my yard. Very little difference in end results. Only thing that varied would be water retention with the 50/50 yard dirt retaining the most. Obviously watering/feeding had to be adjusted with different mediums.

I used to run MSU fertilizer before Floraflex which is another higher concentrated nutrient. Floraflex is located literally around the corner from me, I pass by it all the time so decided to give it a try. I’ve been super happy with it.

I monitor my ph an EC all the time though. My water EC with the V nutes is around 2.4 and with B around 2.2. Always water to runoff and check that, if I think I’m seeing buildup around the bottom of the pot, I water a time or 2 with a very weak nutrient solution.

I’ve been super happy with the Floraflex. Even been dabbling with the foliar sprays. Just think it’s important to observe and know when you have to back off and lower the doses. Some of the amounts for later weeks on their schedule are a little too high, even for me, I’m always experimenting to see how much I can push. So I essentially stick with their week 1 schedules the entire time. That’s why I was asking if you were you were following their schedule, it looked like your plants were seeing a lot of nitrogen which I thought may have caused the issues down the line.

That's great! It seems that almost any substrate will work and that nutrient systems will just need to be modified to work with whatever the substate is. Glad to see both are working for you!!! I'm just starting, so my knowledge is VERY limited. I grew some 30 years ago when I lived in Cali, but that was straight soil. Like you said, monitoring is the key and I feel somewhat validated trying to save feed/water time with the addition of soil. Wish I had a little more time to devote, but have already become way more efficient with the process. My EC numbers are close to yours.They may not be optimal, but being the first run, i'll take it. Will hopefully do a much better job next go round!

Thanks for the reply and will let ya know what shakes out!