LED and autoflowers question

[The_Imp]

Hmmmm nice. So you run the lights 24/0? I heard that diminishes the productivity a bit, that 20/4 is the optimal regime?

Do you run the light on 100% power from the start or you are using dimmers? What height do you keep the lights on from start?

I don't really care about electricity consumption, its not that important at the moment I don't use any electrical appliance except for my PC so its not that bad moneywise.

Yea my plan is to keep it as simple as possible for the first run, thats why I wanna figure out the lightning settings beforehand to an extent.

I grew before but not indoor :S

I'm not sure about the diminished productivity, if you have a sensitive/difficult strain it may find 24/0 too stressy and start to hermy etc. I also need mine on 24/0 for temp control as its chilly where my tent is but tbh I found it works really well for most of my strains (Mephisto) so I figure if it ain't broke...

I keep the lights on full power as I said but I hang them high (1.5m~) for the seedling/veg stages and only lower them once the stretch is over, then I hang them about 20cm from the canopy. That's my lights, yours may advise different heights for the flowering stage but either way start them high if your running at 100%. You could always keep them low and run the power up as they get bigger but it sounds like a pain in the arse and I like my grow as hands free as possible because Im very lazy, lol.

Indoor growing is very different from outdoor, there are a lot of choices out there on how to approach it but simplicity wins in the end I'd say. I run coco in autopots with bio tabs and a little extra topmax & molasses during flowering if they need it, I have a large rez that only needs topping up once in a grow so I can leave the whole thing alone for long periods and it just takes care of itself.

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[pZychedelic]

Thanks for the insightful tips bros

I won't go 24/0 for the first run, will be hard to rule out problems if I will be using it like that in the first run on a complete new setup. Gonna go 20/4 as it seems optimal by everything I read so far, I can easily experiment with that in the future

I like the idea of light being straight away full blast, let them stretch into flower and then lower it to adjust to canopy...probably gonna go with that route. Will be easier to adjust it like that and probably a lot harder to burn them with too much light (these Optic 8+ are intense af).

Yea I know the difference is quite huge in indoor/outdoor but I my medical condition is getting bad and I can't do many things I used to as easily so I need an automated controlled system.. I opted for ebb & flow hydroponics mainly because its so much less work, its just maintainance mainly.

We will see. Waiting for my seeds this week and off I go hopefully won't have much trouble adjusting the lights but gotta learn to read the plants anyway

thanks a lot guys! gonna contemplate on this some more these days! Ty!!!

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Thanks for the insightful tips bros

I won't go 24/0 for the first run, will be hard to rule out problems if I will be using it like that in the first run on a complete new setup. Gonna go 20/4 as it seems optimal by everything I read so far, I can easily experiment with that in the future

I like the idea of light being straight away full blast, let them stretch into flower and then lower it to adjust to canopy...probably gonna go with that route. Will be easier to adjust it like that and probably a lot harder to burn them with too much light (these Optic 8+ are intense af).

Yea I know the difference is quite huge in indoor/outdoor but I my medical condition is getting bad and I can't do many things I used to as easily so I need an automated controlled system.. I opted for ebb & flow hydroponics mainly because its so much less work, its just maintainance mainly.

We will see. Waiting for my seeds this week and off I go hopefully won't have much trouble adjusting the lights but gotta learn to read the plants anyway

thanks a lot guys! gonna contemplate on this some more these days! Ty!!!

I have been running ebb and flow for several months now with rockwool and I love it. What medium will you be using? I have three journals of E&F if you're interested.

I bought two WiFi outlet timers to run a fill pump for 6 minutes to flood then after 15 minutes the drain pump comes on. All controlled from a smartphone.

InkBird has a dual outlet humidity and temperature controllers that let you set and forget your environmental parameters.

Good luck.

 

[pZychedelic]

I have been running ebb and flow for several months now with rockwool and I love it. What medium will you be using? I have three journals of E&F if you're interested.

I bought two WiFi outlet timers to run a fill pump for 6 minutes to flood then after 15 minutes the drain pump comes on. All controlled from a smartphone.

InkBird has a dual outlet humidity and temperature controllers that let you set and forget your environmental parameters.

Good luck.

Oh man thats right up my alley!!!!

Thanks for the Ink-Bird I am currently looking for automated controllers, found a BlueLab one but it can wait,gonna need to learn the system in and out before I start automating every aspect of it.

I will be using clay pebbles (hydroto) for my medium, I just did a semi run with coco and I didn't like it at all, it takes far too long to dry out (i fucked up some things tho and transfered the plants too early (thought I was nutrient burning them when they were in fact too close to LED's)... then once in the new pot they started great but started showing Cal Mag defficiency (thats common in Coco and reportedly with LED's too) so they were cal mag starved... so I fed them but overwatered at that moment and since they were in too large of a pot I basically slowed them down totally.. they were too small to pump all that water out and they coco took far too long to dry out (its relatively cold in my tent 23 celsius) but they were just too small.

Then they started showing Iron lockout due to excess cal mag... I just said fuck all that shit.
Besides I got a hydro setup to automate all that not hand irrigate for first month and a half till they get accustomed to...so it was all that plus the fact I had only 3 seeds sprouted from the 5 I planted, meaning I should do longer veg to cover my whole 5x5 tent with 3 plants... and also then I slowed them down myself... it was just meh. I scraped the whole thing, unfortunately killed the plants and now I am waiting my autoflowers to get things going.

It would just take too much to straighten it out from that mess, i could had sticked with it and rejuvinated them but it would take too long for my liking. Some people would stick it till the end but I just see that as being in a pointless relationship xD better go where I am happy atm.

Besides the first run gave me somewhat of an understanding of how to germinate and prepare them for indoor (air pruning seedlings till they are ready to go into the system) and also taught me the starting PPM's.

Besides with clay pebbles it will be impossible to overwater, I can only see them sinking when they start needing more water as they get bigger which means up the flood intervals. That seems much more simpler and with in line what I had in thought when I got this system, if I wanted to hand water for first month or two I would had gone with soil lol xD.

I also want to abuse the power of frequent feed cycles since I learned plants grow when root zones gets oxygenated in between so using slow drying mediums kind of seems counter intuitive to me at this point but will see. Rockwoll seems a bit more complicated for first time due to it staying wet much much longer (can hold like 600 times its own weight in water compared to clay pebbles which can do like 15% of their own weight xD).


Either way glad someone is doing Ebb & flow here (I checked the hydro section but most if not all are DWC) , I will check your journals later today (gotta go rinse the last bag of clay pebbles soon ) in the evening. There is always abundance of information in those so I love reading through.

I don't have a drain pump tho, I have a system that pumps up and then when its shuts down the water runs back through the inline hose. Seems much simpler to be relying on 1 pump then 2... besides this way I got one ready in the backup

Gotta check those ink bird controllers tho,you are a life saver with those I literally got like 20 tabs of controllers.

I think I will do quite alright for my first try, I already pretty much know what I need to do and pay attention to, its just a matter of learning and calibrating your own system since things because even if we are all doing the same thing we are doing them differently due to setups and equipement we use.

Either way thanks for the suggestions, can't wait to see your logs man hopefully you will be commenting on mine in due time

 

[Death The Cultivator]

That's a long one. I'll reply in bold in the quote itself

Oh man thats right up my alley!!!!

Thanks for the Ink-Bird I am currently looking for automated controllers, found a BlueLab one but it can wait,gonna need to learn the system in and out before I start automating every aspect of it.

I think for E&F the nutrient monitors are a waste unless it's a physical challenge to check manually, you have a dosing system, or you just really like it. I keep trying to justify the price and the need but a good 5in1 meter like the one Apera instruments offers is all I need.

I will be using clay pebbles (hydroto) for my medium, I just did a semi run with coco and I didn't like it at all, it takes far too long to dry out (i fucked up some things tho and transfered the plants too early (thought I was nutrient burning them when they were in fact too close to LED's)... then once in the new pot they started great but started showing Cal Mag defficiency (thats common in Coco and reportedly with LED's too) so they were cal mag starved... so I fed them but overwatered at that moment and since they were in too large of a pot I basically slowed them down totally.. they were too small to pump all that water out and they coco took far too long to dry out (its relatively cold in my tent 23 celsius) but they were just too small.

Then they started showing Iron lockout due to excess cal mag... I just said fuck all that shit.
Besides I got a hydro setup to automate all that not hand irrigate for first month and a half till they get accustomed to...so it was all that plus the fact I had only 3 seeds sprouted from the 5 I planted, meaning I should do longer veg to cover my whole 5x5 tent with 3 plants... and also then I slowed them down myself... it was just meh. I scraped the whole thing, unfortunately killed the plants and now I am waiting my autoflowers to get things going.

It would just take too much to straighten it out from that mess, i could had sticked with it and rejuvinated them but it would take too long for my liking. Some people would stick it till the end but I just see that as being in a pointless relationship xD better go where I am happy atm.

Besides the first run gave me somewhat of an understanding of how to germinate and prepare them for indoor (air pruning seedlings till they are ready to go into the system) and also taught me the starting PPM's.

Besides with clay pebbles it will be impossible to overwater, I can only see them sinking when they start needing more water as they get bigger which means up the flood intervals. That seems much more simpler and with in line what I had in thought when I got this system, if I wanted to hand water for first month or two I would had gone with soil lol xD.

I also want to abuse the power of frequent feed cycles since I learned plants grow when root zones gets oxygenated in between so using slow drying mediums kind of seems counter intuitive to me at this point but will see.

I'm using a reusable, loose rockwool. In commercial settings, rockwool growers manipulate the moisture gradient to drive generative(leaves) and regenerative (flowers). By feeding more often they can steer the growth towards vegetative but in flower they can manipulate the moisture content to create artificial drought to promote stronger flowering. I can't say how hydroton works entirely but I can provide some assistance nonetheless.

Rockwoll seems a bit more complicated for first time due to it staying wet much much longer (can hold like 600 times its own weight in water compared to clay pebbles which can do like 15% of their own weight xD).

There's definitely a learning curve but it's easy otherwise.

Either way glad someone is doing Ebb & flow here (I checked the hydro section but most if not all are DWC) , I will check your journals later today (gotta go rinse the last bag of clay pebbles soon ) in the evening. There is always abundance of information in those so I love reading through.

Current Journals. I don't use the forums for journals bit instead the blogging system.

I don't have a drain pump tho, I have a system that pumps up and then when its shuts down the water runs back through the inline hose. Seems much simpler to be relying on 1 pump then 2... besides this way I got one ready in the backup

i run my table from a 55 gallon drum outside the tent so I need the return pump. Means less reservoir refills as I run a live reservoir so I don't dump or really clean it.

Gotta check those ink bird controllers tho,you are a life saver with those I literally got like 20 tabs of controllers.

$70 for both controllers on Amazon. My blog has more info on automation

I think I will do quite alright for my first try, I already pretty much know what I need to do and pay attention to, its just a matter of learning and calibrating your own system since things because even if we are all doing the same thing we are doing them differently due to setups and equipement we use.

Either way thanks for the suggestions, can't wait to see your logs man hopefully you will be commenting on mine in due time

I plan on it. Good luck.

 

[pZychedelic]

That's a long one. I'll reply in bold in the quote itself

Hehe yea side effects of typing high I got a cheap chinese nutrient monitor that works and I have a working PH/EC pen for manual checking from before and I can use it to cross reference the 2.Got the calibration liquids and all, working so good so far.

Yea I see what you mean about learning curve,my setup is pretty good so far everything works tho I had a small white gooey slime forming in my nute tank with my now ended test run and it lasted around a month, my usual nutrient temperature was around 23celsius or 75 farenheit... people say it doesnt play a role that much in ebb & flow but it seems my air pumps were also too weak and they couldn't oxigenate the nutrient tank at that temperature so it started developing that gooey grayish biofilm. It didn't smell rotten but the smell started to turn funky, so I didn't wanna risk it.

I don't wanna use enzymes or fungicides to deal with mold and slime, I got some Hydroguard just in case but I got myself a water chiller to keep my nutrient solution at around 18 celsius and also a better air pump with more air valves for more air stones to cover my 25 gallon (100L) tank. Chiller is maybe an overkill but I figured since I can afford it that its a good investment to keep the water cooler because more oxygen can be dissolved. (Also I intend to "frost shock" the plants with 2 days dark cycle before chopping and will shock their roots with a bit colder water but not too cold). I plan to use a lot of benificial orgnisms to complement this setup so I can't use anything that kills organisms because it will kill them too.

Man I ran through some of your journals already got 2 bookmarks made, some quality info for future refenrences indeed.

I don't need automated controllers at this moment (except the basic ones) I will play with fully automated system once I use and understand it fully. I planned on calculating VPD's too and I love that Pulse sensor you mentioned it calculates the room vpd for you so that might be usefull in the future for easier environmental control but as I said first I gotta grow to understand the whole system already learned a lot from this first "failed test" run, hopefully won't have too much hurdles this time.

I just don't want mold issues, hopefully nutrient chiller will sort that out.
Either way glad I bumped into you because you seem to know your stuff it will be a pleasure to learn more in the future.
Thanks a lot man!

P.S edit

btw how do you germinate seeds? Do you soak them in PH regulated water or tap water? Do you give mild nute solution? If so, how much EC/PPM?

I found giving them 150-250 ppm ph 5.8 while they are small with set of true leaves after germinating is ok, I use RO 000ppm water then put my own cal mag and some basic nutes with micronutes. Since I am gonna grow autos I am not sure but gonna keep it on the down low, give them 350-550 ppm's on week 2 through 3 and 4 and see how they behave to know if I should up it more for bloom period. Will be tricky but if you got some references for how much you feed that would be great. I see you do photopheriods, I would too but too much time, I am limited in my space so I can't setup a propagation and motherplant room to speed it up, so i am gonna stick to autos for now because its just more viable and convinient for me at this time

anyway, thank you a lot man!

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I'm glad you like to talk. I didn't want to come off as a know-it-all lol. Answers in bold again

Hehe yea side effects of typing high I got a cheap chinese nutrient monitor that works and I have a working PH/EC pen for manual checking from before and I can use it to cross reference the 2.Got the calibration liquids and all, working so good so far.

Very much jealous but still jealous. Link for that nutrient monitor?

Yea I see what you mean about learning curve,my setup is pretty good so far everything works tho I had a small white gooey slime forming in my nute tank with my now ended test run and it lasted around a month, my usual nutrient temperature was around 23celsius or 75 farenheit... people say it doesnt play a role that much in ebb & flow but it seems my air pumps were also too weak and they couldn't oxigenate the nutrient tank at that temperature so it started developing that gooey grayish biofilm. It didn't smell rotten but the smell started to turn funky, so I didn't wanna risk it.

Interesting that you mentioned all that. I just upgraded my air pump from a 60 gallon but I found the air pump by accident lol. If you let a reservoir with beneficials get too warm you'll start seeing your nutrient concentration rise as it becomes more anaerobic from the increasing heat. It's like a compost bin. You bring the temp down, EC and pH regulate themselves back out.

I don't wanna use enzymes or fungicides to deal with mold and slime, I got some Hydroguard just in case but I got myself a water chiller to keep my nutrient solution at around 18 celsius and also a better air pump with more air valves for more air stones to cover my 25 gallon (100L) tank. Chiller is maybe an overkill but I figured since I can afford it that its a good investment to keep the water cooler because more oxygen can be dissolved. (Also I intend to "frost shock" the plants with 2 days dark cycle before chopping and will shock their roots with a bit colder water but not too cold). I plan to use a lot of benificial orgnisms to complement this setup so I can't use anything that kills organisms because it will kill them too.

I use enzymes and beneficials in my reservoir with no negative issues. It's pretty clean to have not been cleaned for 5 months. I foliar feed my plants twice a week a solution of beneficials with yucca, humic, kelp. If you can get some fulvic acid it would help stimulate photosynthesis. My plants love the foliar though.

Man I ran through some of your journals already got 2 bookmarks made, some quality info for future refenrences indeed.

Thank you.

I don't need automated controllers at this moment (except the basic ones) I will play with fully automated system once I use and understand it fully. I planned on calculating VPD's too and I love that Pulse sensor you mentioned it calculates the room vpd for you so that might be usefull in the future for easier environmental control but as I said first I gotta grow to understand the whole system already learned a lot from this first "failed test" run, hopefully won't have too much hurdles this time.

I think it's nice to follow a rough path with VPD but unless you use an IR thermometer, ambient temperature and VPD will be different from leaf surface temperature and VPD. Outdoors Vpd can't be controlled but growers compensate for environmental issues in other ways, maintaining a perfect environment at all times doesn't make a good grower imo but reacting to adversity and still growing dank rather than losing your crop. I like vpd I just can't always control it or fully benefit without c02 injection.

I just don't want mold issues, hopefully nutrient chiller will sort that out.
Either way glad I bumped into you because you seem to know your stuff it will be a pleasure to learn more in the future.
Thanks a lot man!

I enjoyed rambling to you.

P.S edit

btw how do you germinate seeds? Do you soak them in PH regulated water or tap water? Do you give mild nute solution? If so, how much EC/PPM?

In coco I would just put them in pre charged at 1ec on a 500 scale to start. In growpito I do the same just with less success for some reason.

I found giving them 150-250 ppm ph 5.8 while they are small with set of true leaves after germinating is ok, I use RO 000ppm water then put my own cal mag and some basic nutes with micronutes. Since I am gonna grow autos I am not sure but gonna keep it on the down low, give them 350-550 ppm's on week 2 through 3 and 4 and see how they behave to know if I should up it more for bloom period. Will be tricky but if you got some references for how much you feed that would be great. I see you do photopheriods, I would too but too much time, I am limited in my space so I can't setup a propagation and motherplant room to speed it up, so i am gonna stick to autos for now because its just more viable and convinient for me at this time

I'm in this growpito so I start everything at 1.0 EC and keep my pH around 5.5-5.7. For clay pebbles I can't say for sure how i would feed them. @Mañ'O'Green might know better than me.

P.S. Vivosun offers 2in1 grow tents of various sizes. If you're really interested in photos that could be an option.

anyway, thank you a lot man!

 

[pZychedelic]

I'm glad you like to talk. I didn't want to come off as a know-it-all lol. Answers in bold again

6 in 1 Water Testing Meter - Ph PPM Temp TDS EC CF for sale online | eBay

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here you go. There is a bunch of suppliers of the same one, does the job well enough. Just give it some time when you turn it on first time, my PH was literally going from 2-12 reading randomly until it stabilized within an hour so that I could calibrate it. Was off by 0.2 I think so its pretty good. Working for couple of months now no probs.

Nice about the folliar, can you share the dosages? I have all the things you said, yucca, bennies, humic/fulvic and kelp. Glad to see my preparation is on point

Also when you are preparing the nutrient tank and adjusting EC... do you put basic nutrients (NPK + micronutes) till you get the EC top limit then add supplements like yucca bennies and humic? Or you need to make sure ALL OF THEM are in the same EC range? If you get my question...

do the supplements count toward the whole EC sum or EC is used for basic nutrients then you can add supplements to that EC exceeding it a bit? :S

 

[Death The Cultivator]

6 in 1 Water Testing Meter - Ph PPM Temp TDS EC CF for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 6 in 1 Water Testing Meter - Ph PPM Temp TDS EC CF at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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here you go. There is a bunch of suppliers of the same one, does the job well enough. Just give it some time when you turn it on first time, my PH was literally going from 2-12 reading randomly until it stabilized within an hour so that I could calibrate it. Was off by 0.2 I think so its pretty good. Working for couple of months now no probs.

Nice about the folliar, can you share the dosages? I have all the things you said, yucca, bennies, humic/fulvic and kelp. Glad to see my preparation is on point

Also when you are preparing the nutrient tank and adjusting EC... do you put basic nutrients (NPK + micronutes) till you get the EC top limit then add supplements like yucca bennies and humic? Or you need to make sure ALL OF THEM are in the same EC range? If you get my question...

do the supplements count toward the whole EC sum or EC is used for basic nutrients then you can add supplements to that EC exceeding it a bit? :S

Thanks for the link. It's real tempting at that price.

With my foliar I've just been using a mix of my reservoir water with a 1/16 tsp of beneficials containing yucca, humic acid, and kelp. I have been playing with strength but I'm not sure if the dosing can be overdone with organics.

When I fill my 55 gallon I ignore the initial tap water EC. I add .3 EC of CalMag, 6 tbsp of pH down, 5 tsp of beneficials, 1/4 tsp of enzymes, then I add Mega Crop.

I don't count the additives usually just NPK but I'm only using MC.

 

[pZychedelic]

Thanks for the link. It's real tempting at that price.

With my foliar I've just been using a mix of my reservoir water with a 1/16 tsp of beneficials containing yucca, humic acid, and kelp. I have been playing with strength but I'm not sure if the dosing can be overdone with organics.

When I fill my 55 gallon I ignore the initial tap water EC. I add .3 EC of CalMag, 6 tbsp of pH down, 5 tsp of beneficials, 1/4 tsp of enzymes, then I add Mega Crop.

I don't count the additives usually just NPK but I'm only using MC.

Yea I didn't regret buying it because its quite convenient at that price range

wait wait you use tap water? You are not using Reverse Osmosis? Damn. Do you dechlorinate the water? Else beneficials cant survive due to chlorine isn't that right? :S

so you ignore initial EC, add everything and then just count the last EC value of adding MegaCrop (btw I also took MC as my nutrient line of choice haha).

Ok gonna see, waiting on seeds to arrive everything else is ready at this point I just need to make sure i get 90% germination rate, gonna be putting 8/9 or maybe even 12 seeds... don't want wasted money.

How do you germinate seeds? Do you put them in rockwool direct? Or germinate then put into rockwoll? Or you using clones? thanks man!