Lighting Is this why we NEED calcium added to our LED grows?

420ing

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Hello. Something came into my head. "Why do our plants need more calcium under LED's?" So i went on google and i found this rather quickly.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0911.3867

"Quantum Physics


Two-color photoionization of calcium using SHG and LED light

C. Schuck, F. Rohde, M. Almendros, M. Hennrich, J. Eschner
(Submitted on 19 Nov 2009)
We present a photoionization method to load single 40Ca ions in a linear Paul trap from an atomic beam. Neutral Ca I atoms are resonantly excited from the ground state to the intermediate 4s4p 1P_1-level using coherent 423nm radiation produced by single-pass second harmonic generation in a periodically poled KTiOPO_4 crystal pumped with an 120mW extended cavity diode laser. Ionization is then attained with a high-power light emitting diode imaged to the trap center, using an appropriately designed optical system composed of standard achromatic doublet lenses. The setup simplifies previous implementations at similar efficiency, and it hardly requires any maintenance at all."​



From this i gather that light around the 420nm wavelength (420 lol) stimulates neutral calcium atoms and ionises them. Now some people buy an ioniser to get rid of the smell of their grows or to help at least. The ions are highly reactive so they bind to the molecules in the atmosphere that are creating the smell and make it undetectable.

Now i can remember that our LED lights use blue spectrum light between the 415nm-460nm range,maybe im a bit off there but its around that area. That light must be ionising the free calcium that is in the leafs of our plants! And when its ionised its gonna be highly reactive and connect itself onto any other atoms or molecules that are wiling to accept it i reckon. Hence the reason we need to keep giving our plants more calcium to replace the rest of it that was locked out of use by reacting with other stuff.

In natural light and other types of artificial lighting there is a more spread out spectrum of light being emmited and some of these other spectrums must produce the same effect in other atoms or molecules in such a way that it balances out the plants chemistry and counteracts the ionisation of calcium within the leafs.

I've never heard anyone get in depth about the issue before and though that this makes sense to me at least and thought id share it with you so i can be told how wrong i am lol.

BTW im pretty baked right now

Peace!
 
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awesome! and yes I TOTALLY 100% agree with your theory. Calcium also has quite a range of electron states:
 
Yeah that's some good thinking there! Good of theory as any, and works for me lol :)
 
Yea good post. Ive never really had good luck with cal mag even using E salt and molasses. its like the plants just don't wanna suck it up just right. i decided to just buy cal+mag from b care.. I feel like that will solve this slight issue.
 
Lots of interesting reading in this thread concerning Calcium, Magnesium ans LED lights - https://www.autoflower.org/f138/led-calmag-discussion-24451.html

Here is part of a post I made back in 2012 on ICMAG , In the most part it was copied and pasted from a post made by Dutchpassiontony here on "AFN", many moons ago.

After searching around for over 30 mins in the AFN archives for the original post by tony, I had to give up and go and copy and paste it from ICMAG lmao twoing and frowing info lol.

Any way here is the post - I think the post was called " Dutch Passion Tony's thoughts on Calcium uptake and LED's" or something similar.


One other important aspect of LED is the fact that the light comes evenly from a panel of 3 feet x 3 feet. Or 1m x 1m for us Europeans. The effect of that is a more even spread of light rather than a single point source as you have with a traditional HPS Bulb. LED is similar in concept to the ‘travelling light’, or HPS on a rail where the light rolls from one side of the room to the other ensuring that all plants get some direct light at some point. The problem with the travelling light technique is that for a lot of the time the bud is getting low light. The idea of spreading that illumination out,a s the LED panel does, results in all the plants is getting a fair share of light all the time And all the light the plant does get is rich in the most useful wavelengths. It is a dream scenario for the plant and perhaps that alters the plants feed requirements. It seems to increase the requirement for calcium and magnesium and I am sure that is key to understanding what it is that LED does differently.

Here is an initial theory on why magnesium deficiencies are seen. Magnesium is used in several ways, it is also needed as part of the chlorophyll molecule itself. Could it be that LED grown plants use extra Magnesium to produce extra chlorophyll to deal with the increased levels of useful light? I don’t know, but it is a fair question to ask.

Calcium is used in different ways by the plants but one way is in cell walls and membranes. It is used in enzymes and transporting of other nutrients. Somehow more of this is going on.

So my thoughts are along several different lines right now.

LED is now more effective ‘watt for watt’ than HPS. The poor public image of LED is down to some early exaggerated claims that never survived public scrutiny. But LED technology has really moved on in the last year or so.

I think the LED market will really takeoff when there is a bit more serious competition. HydrogrowLED look like they could give HPS a serious run for it’s money in coming years but prices will have to drop. I can’t believe that the LED manufacture can be so expensive, a few cents each but surely not too much when LED’s are being produced by the million in the Far East. And assembly of the components is something the Chinese can do with their eyes shut for a fraction of the price we can achieve in the west. So $1,000 or more for a 300 watt LED device seems excessive. Get the price down to $300-$400 and hardened HPS devotees will buy them. In my opinion LED prices are going to have to soften in order to get mass market appeal. At current prices I think 90% of customers will never be able to justify it even though they might love to have one.

But technically they are really moving LEDalong. It makes me wonder where LED light performance might be in a few years time. For those that worry about heat signatures and energy consumption then LED has obvious attractions. The light is all fully usable by the plant and it is delivered from an evenly lit panel rather than a single point. So all the plant surface area can join in the photosynthetic fun.

I have one other point to make about LED. By my reckoning some 40% of available surface area on the panel is not used. I am sure there is a reason for this such as limits in soldering density, or something even sillier reason such as the current factory only make circular units. But I am sure that these problems could be overcome. LED panels could be made brighter by filling some of the ‘dead space’ on the panel with more LED’s. And like I said, I really can’t believe the LED’s themselves can cost that much. We have seen LED’s move from 1 watt to 3 watts in the last couple of years. What happens when they find a way to mass produce a 5W or even a 7W version? And prices will drop like they do for everything else that is mass-producible. I remember being mesmerised by the first electronic calculator I saw, ‘could I ever afford one of my own?’ I wondered. And barely a decade later you were getting them for free when you filled up your car with gas.

I think we need to ask the nutrient manufacturers how they need to reformulate their products to allow for the new feeding requirements of the plants and I will check around the Dutch Passion office to see if we have any contacts and let you know. I am sure I can initiate some cooperation from my mineralised brothers in the nutrient world. I will see if I can get them to register onsite and give us their views.

I think LED will really take off. Right now it is still in the stage of the ‘early adopter’ . It will become a mainstream technology but manufacturers will first face up to a transition from ‘premium market’ to ‘mass market’ and change profit expectations for it to happen.

And Seymour, we would truly love to see you scrog a couple of AutoMazars, let me know if you are serious about that,perhaps after this grow. If you are serious,we will get you some seeds and run a ‘guess the yield’ contest. But I would go for both LED panels (or evenbetter 2x penetrator pro’s !) rather than one. Make it spectacular !

The plant continues to look excellent Seymour, how much is she drinking each day ? I wondered whether there was a hint of nutrient burn at the tips of the leaves on one shot? As you say, she might need another week before the PK14 boost. I am amazed she is at an EC of 1.6 when the Mazar would only take an EC of 1.0 under the same conditions.

You are doing great mate

This post was originally posted by "Dutchpassiontony" on the Autoflower network

Interesting stuff , what does the future hold? Will we see LED targeted plant foods & who will be the first to formulate them.

The seymore reffered to in the start of this post is a guy called "Seymore-buds" he grew 350g with 290W of led, thats over a gram per Watt. Comparable to what you can expect with an hps! He was growing "Auto Mzaar" from Dutch Passion.

Auto's are now starting to achieve more acceptable weights and highs and LED getting better all the time, producing som fine crops. All we need now is for LED to drop in price,I'm guessing in the next few year we will see that happen.

2012
 
:Cool bud:....interesting 420',... first question that came to mind with me was what is neutral Ca? Are they talking elemental Ca, as in the pure metal state? ..this begs the question if such a state could be found in a living system,... I got me doubts about it....I'm not sure it even occurs naturally in this pure metallic form..? It's always in the form of an ionic compound so far as I've ever seen biologically or geologically,...even if so, it makes me wonder how this would influence those valence electrons which are not in the same state as those in the neutral metallic one,...? LOL!- :coffee2: This is getting outside my familiar territory fast! .... OK, consider the environment those Ca ions are in, too,... it's all over the place intra-/extracellularly as Ca2+,... does this wavelength have the same effect on those electrons on the positively charged ion? It's already ionized, right..? ....if compounded to something else (carbonate, phosphate, whatever), I wouldn't think there would be any such reaction... point being, it may be only in this metallic state that such a reaction occurs,... and I don't know what state the Ca metal is ionized into...? Ca2+, or something else, unstable and temporary,... once the excited electron loses it's energy, returning to ground state, and back to metallic Ca...? ...***... recall, Ca2+ ions are not so wildly reactive in the cellular environment, they move in and out of cells as part of normal life functions w/o getting "grabby" reactive with other things,... so, I'm thinking this was a good line of thought brother 420'- :d5:, but I not so sure it's the case with LED's and the apparent odd elevated needs for for Ca associated with it,... the situation in that experiment in nothing at like what's inside the plant at the cellular level,... but I'm thinking there's still other possible pathways and reactions that may have something to do with this less directly,... :thumbs: :dunno: :smoke: Always question coincidence! Cheers 420'! :Cheers:

>>>>... :hug:JM, what's good my homie-in-chief? I missed getting Christmas Greeting out to you earlier,.. too damn pooped by the time I get to the damn 'puter! ..hope you and your family had a wonderful Holiday my friend!! :Cheers:
 
Calcium The Glutton

:check:

[video=youtube;92WRecH5v1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=92WRecH5v1M[/video]
 
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