How to MOD an X-Vape Nail to last longer.

[N/A-Greengo]

Found this Q&A on Amazon:

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

The MDS is all about a volume of uncured product. This is what you need to keep heat, flames and sparks from. This is why I have an inquiry out with Permatex to see if there is information on the cured product.

The doughnut is the heating element, it vaporizes the rosin before the bowl gets that hot. I throw away the spent ones so I don't have one to disassemble but the fact that they still don't leak when the heat element dies would indicate that the RTV is still there and not deteriorated

I reiterate, the small amount of RTV ( smaller than a grain of rice) I use could not give off enough formaldehyde to equal one pack of cigarettes. I am not saying it is good for you. I do contend that you are exposed to much much more on a daily basis just from your environment.

I think we will have a better answer when Permatex gets back to me.

I have learned a lot more about formaldehyde! It is all around us

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Found this Q&A on Amazon:

View attachment 1631261

They did not say it was poisonous just that it has not been certified for food. This is right out of the mouth of their lawyer.

I looked up a Food safe product Sil-bond RTV 4500. The MDS lists formaldahyde as a deteriozaton chemical. Once again I think this only applies to the Uncured product.

 

[BII]

You're using a silicone adhesive, and there are 2 basic chemistries. For ex., see https://tblplastics.com/platinum-vs-peroxide-silicone-tubing/. The 2-part (mix in a platinum catalyst) is the best -- available in biopharma grades; takes constant temperature ≥350˚F, starts out and cures pure; is stronger, etc. This is a 2-part adhesive, mix the catalyst in; regrettably not a consumer item.

Next as silicones go is the common hardware store 1-part, no mixing, silicone tube adhesives. Look for 100% silicone that's labeled as food grade (kitchen/food contact surface use approval on label). These contain a peroxide curing system with water (from air, on surfaces) being the catalyst, with formaldehyde and organic acids (can smell the acetic acid) released during curing.

To get good/better temperature and wear resistance, metal and mineral powders, fibers, etc. are added, apparently like the product you have. If the food grade 100% pure transparent silicone glue will work for a vape application, that is much preferred.

Even the less pure 1-part consumer stuff will be non-toxic particularly after its first-time good heating (presuming not excessively heated). Any releasable stuff will be off-gassed.

Having built my own vaporizers in the past, I'd use a high-grade ceramic adhesive. For ex., see https://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ca_fastset.htm. Regrettably, this stuff is expensive. I got mine about 20 years ago.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

You're using a silicone adhesive, and there are 2 basic chemistries. For ex., see https://tblplastics.com/platinum-vs-peroxide-silicone-tubing/. The 2-part (mix in a platinum catalyst) is the best -- available in biopharma grades; takes constant temperature ≥350˚F, starts out and cures pure; is stronger, etc. This is a 2-part adhesive, mix the catalyst in; regrettably not a consumer item.

Next as silicones go is the common hardware store 1-part, no mixing, silicone tube adhesives. Look for 100% silicone that's labeled as food grade (kitchen/food contact surface use approval on label). These contain a peroxide curing system with water (from air, on surfaces) being the catalyst, with formaldehyde and organic acids (can smell the acetic acid) released during curing.

To get good/better temperature and wear resistance, metal and mineral powders, fibers, etc. are added, apparently like the product you have. If the food grade 100% pure transparent silicone glue will work for a vape application, that is much preferred.

Even the less pure 1-part consumer stuff will be non-toxic particularly after its first-time good heating (presuming not excessively heated). Any releasable stuff will be off-gassed.

Having built my own vaporizers in the past, I'd use a high-grade ceramic adhesive. For ex., see https://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ca_fastset.htm. Regrettably, this stuff is expensive. I got mine about 20 years ago.

Yes, I agree and think it would become inert after curing and perhaps the first heating like you say but I do not have proof. This also assumes you do not burn it up! I am waiting to hear back from Permatex.

After researching formaldehyde it is so prevalent in the environment that the miniscule amount that could be released from the volume of RTV I use does not concern me. Certainly if it is a concern for you do not use RTV! Just inhaling rosin vapors is probably worse but I choose to ignore that also:

 

[BII]

.

Yes, I agree and think it would become inert after curing and perhaps the first heating like you say but I do not have proof. This also assumes you do not burn it up! I am waiting to hear back from Permatex.

After researching formaldehyde it is so prevalent in the environment that the miniscule amount that could be released from the volume of RTV I use does not concern me. Certainly if it is a concern for you do not use RTV! Just inhaling rosin vapors is probably worse but I choose to ignore that also:

View attachment 1631361

If we really wanted to start some likely flaming-hot toxicity concern discussions, we might consider the suitability of epoxy in vapes. For ex., see https://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ea_ultratemp.htm for >600˚F adhesives. Like ceramic adhesives, presuming say not exposed to >450-500˚F and only exposed to air (not liquids), surely with no off-gassing after first heating these would be 'safe' even in inhalation air paths. These would likely function better, be more robust for your application vs. any silicone; and with ≤200˚F higher usability temperature.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

.

If we really wanted to start some likely flaming-hot toxicity concern discussions, we might consider the suitability of epoxy in vapes. For ex., see https://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ea_ultratemp.htm for >600˚F adhesives. Like ceramic adhesives, presuming say not exposed to >450-500˚F and only exposed to air (not liquids), surely with no off-gassing after first heating these would be 'safe' even in inhalation air paths. These would likely function better, be more robust for your application vs. any silicone; and with ≤200˚F higher usability temperature.

@BII have you seen the teeny tiny amount of RTV I am using? I think working with an epoxy in such small amounts would be problematic and not flexible if some wire movement is needed to reassemble?

 

[BII]

Essentially any adhesive that can take the heat, not off-gas or breakdown, will be OK. This is not even in the air flow path.

 

[DCLXVI]

I have found this thread very interesting and I think some very good safety considerations have been raised. Although, don't forget @Mañ'O'Green , myself, and several others here lived through the eras of leaded gasoline, non-stop cigarette smoke, quaaludes, and various terrible substances not thought to be unhealthy. A bit of permatex probably won't get us now.

I am interested to see what the final verdict from Permatex might be and if there is a better product for some of the younger and health conscious members.

I don't remember the original comedian who said it but:

Bathroom cleaners. Use in a well ventilated area only. If it was a well ventilated area I wouldn't have mold or mildew and need to use this frickin' product!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I have not heard back form Permatex yet?

Essentially any adhesive that can take the heat, not off-gas or breakdown, will be OK. This is not even in the air flow path.

Yes it is in the air path, The cold air comes in at the base and runs through the middle post (where the RTV is) out into the glass housing and back into the top holes of the bowl chamber and out to your mouth.

I have found this thread very interesting and I think some very good safety considerations have been raised. Although, don't forget @Mañ'O'Green , myself, and several others here lived through the eras of leaded gasoline, non-stop cigarette smoke, quaaludes, and various terrible substances not thought to be unhealthy. A bit of permatex probably won't get us now.

I am interested to see what the final verdict from Permatex might be and if there is a better product for some of the younger and health conscious members.

I don't remember the original comedian who said it but:

Bathroom cleaners. Use in a well ventilated area only. If it was a well ventilated area I wouldn't have mold or mildew and need to use this frickin' product!

I cannot even begin to list all of the agricultural, automotive, cleaning and street drugs I have exposed my body to over the past 72 years, so yeah this is not very worrying for me.

I sacrificed the Nail on my x-vape that I have been using for months to look at the RTV. I looks just like new with now signs of deterioration. No leaking either.

I also took an old one apart to show the leaking. It will completely fill the air passage chamber with rosin rendering the unit non functional.

The new nails are $8 plus shipping, sometimes I got a good one that lasted a couple of months other times they would last less than a week. My MOD makes them last many months.