Indoor Grow #2: Bruce Banner & Creme de la Chem x Forum Stomper
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Today is day 42. Wrapping up week 6. Things aren't perfect, but it's still progress and substantially better than my previous runs. I am seeing signs of what I think are deficiency in all plants. There are also hints of nute (tip) burn in two plants, but I think both sets of problems were brought on by my feeding habits.
Besides that, one of my biggest takeaways at this point is topping. Seeing the difference topping made in E1 is pretty incredible. She's moving fastest but also has a really convenient spread/growth pattern and looks likeliest to be the best yield out of the batch. Going forward, I don't think I'll hesitate to top so long as the plant is doing well in the first couple weeks.
Lights & Environment:
No big changes on this front. As veg came to a definitive end, I started incrementing lux 1-2k per day. We're right at 600 ppfd right now, and everyone continues to pray. As a result, temps are up and humidity is down. I'm keeping the towel on hand since it's keeping the low RH around the upper 40's. I was a little shocked to see it drop down to 42% without, so I had to reintroduce.
Weekly averages are 78.5F and 66.0%.
Feeding:
This has been my biggest learning opportunity with this grow. I naively started out feeding full strength, but I wasn't taking into account the frequency with which I would need to water. Right now, they're asking for about half a gallon each per week. So I was feeding full strength in one 32 oz. watering; and then the same amount of pure RO water in between.
So, even as I was seeing tip burn in a couple of the plants (The Bruces both seem to be more sensitive to it), I was seeing signs of nitrogen deficiency in the same plants. Both Mephisto crosses are showing more of those rust spots on older growth in conjunction with interveinal chlorosis in newer growth. Since I'm seeing no sign of burn on the Mephistos, I am assuming this is deficiency rather than excess.
It seems obvious in retrospect, but I finally had my a-ha moment and realized I could give them the same dosage of nutes consistently across two waterings rather than all at once with a pure RO watering in between. I did that for the first time yesterday with the first week of flowering nutes from Rx blend. Treated 1 gallon to half dose and split it evenly among them. I also added half a dose of cal mag to see if that addresses any of the weird spots in the Mephistos.
I also got a sprayer which is making it easier to get them watered thoroughly. I will give them the same thing again (Possibly minus the cal mag) when they dry out and monitor for progress, but I am hoping this curbs most of the issues. While I am not sure about some of these issues, the nitrogen deficiency in both Bruces (and the taller Mephisto) seems pretty straightforward - as does the tip burn in those same plants.
I checked soil PH a few times over the last couple weeks and am seeing numbers closer to what I would expect. I think, previously, I was always measuring a 7.0 because I wasn't really driving the Accurate 8 deep enough into the soil to get to the root zone. Now that I've been doing this, I am getting readings that I'd expect: 6.2-6.8 and all over the place in between.
I did also finally hook up my Stealth RO kit. This thing is a champ. Lightweight and easy to rig up. I ran it for a few hours while I was doing stuff around the house. Cranked out 6 gallons of RO water at about 12ppm in about two hours. Part of that time was flushing the membrane.
Training:
No updates really. I ended up doing some LST on the topped Bruce to keep her from getting too tall. It seemed to work well. She is progressing faster than the others with some visible frost already. The other flowers are coming along; just a few noticeable days behind.
Besides that, one of my biggest takeaways at this point is topping. Seeing the difference topping made in E1 is pretty incredible. She's moving fastest but also has a really convenient spread/growth pattern and looks likeliest to be the best yield out of the batch. Going forward, I don't think I'll hesitate to top so long as the plant is doing well in the first couple weeks.
Lights & Environment:
No big changes on this front. As veg came to a definitive end, I started incrementing lux 1-2k per day. We're right at 600 ppfd right now, and everyone continues to pray. As a result, temps are up and humidity is down. I'm keeping the towel on hand since it's keeping the low RH around the upper 40's. I was a little shocked to see it drop down to 42% without, so I had to reintroduce.
Weekly averages are 78.5F and 66.0%.
Feeding:
This has been my biggest learning opportunity with this grow. I naively started out feeding full strength, but I wasn't taking into account the frequency with which I would need to water. Right now, they're asking for about half a gallon each per week. So I was feeding full strength in one 32 oz. watering; and then the same amount of pure RO water in between.
So, even as I was seeing tip burn in a couple of the plants (The Bruces both seem to be more sensitive to it), I was seeing signs of nitrogen deficiency in the same plants. Both Mephisto crosses are showing more of those rust spots on older growth in conjunction with interveinal chlorosis in newer growth. Since I'm seeing no sign of burn on the Mephistos, I am assuming this is deficiency rather than excess.
It seems obvious in retrospect, but I finally had my a-ha moment and realized I could give them the same dosage of nutes consistently across two waterings rather than all at once with a pure RO watering in between. I did that for the first time yesterday with the first week of flowering nutes from Rx blend. Treated 1 gallon to half dose and split it evenly among them. I also added half a dose of cal mag to see if that addresses any of the weird spots in the Mephistos.
I also got a sprayer which is making it easier to get them watered thoroughly. I will give them the same thing again (Possibly minus the cal mag) when they dry out and monitor for progress, but I am hoping this curbs most of the issues. While I am not sure about some of these issues, the nitrogen deficiency in both Bruces (and the taller Mephisto) seems pretty straightforward - as does the tip burn in those same plants.
I checked soil PH a few times over the last couple weeks and am seeing numbers closer to what I would expect. I think, previously, I was always measuring a 7.0 because I wasn't really driving the Accurate 8 deep enough into the soil to get to the root zone. Now that I've been doing this, I am getting readings that I'd expect: 6.2-6.8 and all over the place in between.
I did also finally hook up my Stealth RO kit. This thing is a champ. Lightweight and easy to rig up. I ran it for a few hours while I was doing stuff around the house. Cranked out 6 gallons of RO water at about 12ppm in about two hours. Part of that time was flushing the membrane.
Training:
No updates really. I ended up doing some LST on the topped Bruce to keep her from getting too tall. It seemed to work well. She is progressing faster than the others with some visible frost already. The other flowers are coming along; just a few noticeable days behind.
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Sorry, I got pretty quiet on this again. As you might imagine, I ran into some problems! Fortunately, the infirmary and its regulars were immensely helpful in sorting it out, and I had a few powerful epiphanies through the course of sorting out my issues.
A slight detour
To summarize all that: I managed to lock all four of these poor gals out. How? Well, way back when I was getting started, I intended to do an organic grow. I read all kinds of stuff about watering, and I got it ingrained in my head that I would not water to runoff. (Because -- you know -- organics) It became mechanical and a given, and I didn't think much more about it.
Flash forward, and my original organic aspirations fell by the wayside. I needed nutes to salvage a previous grow, so I picked up the Rx Blend used in this particular run. (I had plenty; which is why I chose it for this one) Anyway, I never re-visited my watering habits. In other words, I was saturating these plants with salts and hadn't flushed them. No wonder the strange spots were cropping up. Things culminated in some really rough yellowing. I think I exacerbated the whole thing by treating it like a deficiency for a while.
Thanks to the infirmary, I was able to curtail this - but the damage was pretty much already done. They did come back towards the end to varying degrees. I flushed (a lot) and then got them back on a very gentle nutrient schedule. Here are a few random photo updates that show the progression and eventual decline.
This was one of the last few photos I took before chop. (Day 61)
Chop Day
I let them go for a few weeks this way; up until I started seeing a definitive decline in a couple of the plants. Leaves were dying off en masse on E4 with E2 not far behind; and trichomes were cloudy with some ambers popping up. Day 71 was chop day. I gave everyone the same initial treatment; with a really light leaf trim before hanging the whole plants up to dry. I was planning to dry trim, but after reading somewhat obsessively for the last couple days, I had second thoughts.
I've pulled all but parts of E1 (By far the frostiest & best performer) and E3 (My healthier looking Mephisto) to wet trim on day 3 of drying. All those nuggets are in paper bags in the tent; with the rest of E1 & E3 hanging out to finish drying before I'll try a dry trim and do A/B testing on those. I also snagged a cheap little dehumidifier since my RH was running a little high (around 60%) in the drying tent. This has me down to 73F & 49% RH - Right about where I want it.
I'll come back and update with final weights + photos once the dry is complete and they're jarred. The bud looks pretty good despite all the issues, so I'm confident it's going to be better than my last run at least.
Anyway, lessons learned:
Future Grows:
Going forward, I have a few new techniques to try. Some of the organic gurus here have helped me towards the light in that regard. I acquired an Earthbox and some good soil + amendments, so I'm going to build myself a no till setup for an upcoming spring grow. I'm learning a lot from the folks on site doing this!
But first: I picked up some autopots. It was a bit of an impulse purchase, and I originally intended to use it for organics. I've since learned that doesn't make much sense, but I've seen what some soil & coco growers can do with these things. Paired with how 'hands off' they seem to be, I'm encouraged. And I always wanted to try coco; despite all the ways it can go awry for inexperienced growers. So I picked up some mother earth coco and plan to run a couple no-frills Mephistos in in my next (winter) grow. I probably won't get that one going for a few weeks, but I'll do a journal for it when I do. For now, I'm reading about charging my coco since I bought a brick.
Thanks <3
To those of you who have taken this ride with me, shared your wisdom, guidance and encouragement: Thank you!
A slight detour
To summarize all that: I managed to lock all four of these poor gals out. How? Well, way back when I was getting started, I intended to do an organic grow. I read all kinds of stuff about watering, and I got it ingrained in my head that I would not water to runoff. (Because -- you know -- organics) It became mechanical and a given, and I didn't think much more about it.
Flash forward, and my original organic aspirations fell by the wayside. I needed nutes to salvage a previous grow, so I picked up the Rx Blend used in this particular run. (I had plenty; which is why I chose it for this one) Anyway, I never re-visited my watering habits. In other words, I was saturating these plants with salts and hadn't flushed them. No wonder the strange spots were cropping up. Things culminated in some really rough yellowing. I think I exacerbated the whole thing by treating it like a deficiency for a while.
Thanks to the infirmary, I was able to curtail this - but the damage was pretty much already done. They did come back towards the end to varying degrees. I flushed (a lot) and then got them back on a very gentle nutrient schedule. Here are a few random photo updates that show the progression and eventual decline.
This was one of the last few photos I took before chop. (Day 61)
Chop Day
I let them go for a few weeks this way; up until I started seeing a definitive decline in a couple of the plants. Leaves were dying off en masse on E4 with E2 not far behind; and trichomes were cloudy with some ambers popping up. Day 71 was chop day. I gave everyone the same initial treatment; with a really light leaf trim before hanging the whole plants up to dry. I was planning to dry trim, but after reading somewhat obsessively for the last couple days, I had second thoughts.
I've pulled all but parts of E1 (By far the frostiest & best performer) and E3 (My healthier looking Mephisto) to wet trim on day 3 of drying. All those nuggets are in paper bags in the tent; with the rest of E1 & E3 hanging out to finish drying before I'll try a dry trim and do A/B testing on those. I also snagged a cheap little dehumidifier since my RH was running a little high (around 60%) in the drying tent. This has me down to 73F & 49% RH - Right about where I want it.
I'll come back and update with final weights + photos once the dry is complete and they're jarred. The bud looks pretty good despite all the issues, so I'm confident it's going to be better than my last run at least.
Anyway, lessons learned:
- Nutes? Water to 20% runoff!
- And check runoff PPM every now and again to make sure nothing troubelsome is on the horizon
- Less is always better. Start with 1/4 dose, resist the urge to supplement with calmag randomly, and slowly adjust. (Again: Use PPM as a guide to make sure the plant is picking up what I'm throwing down)
- Water-only days. I was feeding every round; but in varying amounts. Next time, I'll dilute some of my hard tap water with RO and give that at least once every couple waterings.
- Topping is tops. I only topped 1 of the 4, but she was my best performer and easiest to deal with. I'm going to do this on every plant I grow henceforth; provided it's not stunted.
- Fewer plants. If I had known all 4 of these would do as well as they did, I probably would've only planted 1 of each strain. 4x the watering (and flushing), 4x the trimming... holy hell.
- And 4x the smell. I thought my vivosun 6" inline filter was a champ, but the stank started creeping out around week 2 or 3 of flowering. I thought maybe the filter was just ready for a replacement, so I bought a new one. Same problem. Going to try an ACInfinity filter next run.
Future Grows:
Going forward, I have a few new techniques to try. Some of the organic gurus here have helped me towards the light in that regard. I acquired an Earthbox and some good soil + amendments, so I'm going to build myself a no till setup for an upcoming spring grow. I'm learning a lot from the folks on site doing this!
But first: I picked up some autopots. It was a bit of an impulse purchase, and I originally intended to use it for organics. I've since learned that doesn't make much sense, but I've seen what some soil & coco growers can do with these things. Paired with how 'hands off' they seem to be, I'm encouraged. And I always wanted to try coco; despite all the ways it can go awry for inexperienced growers. So I picked up some mother earth coco and plan to run a couple no-frills Mephistos in in my next (winter) grow. I probably won't get that one going for a few weeks, but I'll do a journal for it when I do. For now, I'm reading about charging my coco since I bought a brick.
Thanks <3
To those of you who have taken this ride with me, shared your wisdom, guidance and encouragement: Thank you!
Last edited:
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And that's a wrap, my friends. I've been chomping at the bit to jar these, but today was the day since I found a few smaller nugs that were ready to snap off. I think they're still a little wet, but this was day 7 and I'd rather risk a little over-wet than too dry. They are in jars now with boveda 62's
All in, I got 4.14 oz. off the four plants. Broken down as follows:
Don't mind the huge stems. I'm paranoid I over-dried (the buds feel so brittle), so I left extra chunks of stem for more moisture. Despite that dry feeling, most buds were not snapping off clean, so I am thinking they're actually still a little wet. Better safe than sorry.
Split across 6 jars so I could keep the two A/B tests (wet trim vs. dry trim) for E1 & E3 separated.
It should've been a lot better, but those lockout issues and flushes really set me back. The smell is great, and the smoke is already pretty smooth. Looking forward to what the cure brings out. Can definitely smell the strawberry in the bruces. E4's low weight isn't a huge surprise. She had an odd shape and struggled from the onset, exacerbated most definitely by my overfeeding and poor watering habits. She would've benefitted from aggressive defoliation all along as well.
The other night, I snuck a tester nug that fell off as I was doing trim for paper bags. Much to my surprise, as I was breaking it up (no grinder), I found a seed. lol. There were no signs of hermie on any of these things, and I haven't noticed any others yet. I'm not even sure which specimen the nug came off of. Anyway, I'm going to document what I find as I start smoking this stuff and hopefully make a determination on which one it was. I suspect E3 but didn't want to start breaking her up. From what I have read, this can happen under stressful situations -- And they were all most definitely stressed during early-mid flower.
Anyway, that's a wrap. I'm going to clean the tent out this weekend and maybe charge my coco for the next run. But I'll probably give myself a week or two to continue reading, set the autopots up, and think through strains for the next run.
Thanks again for all your help. <3
All in, I got 4.14 oz. off the four plants. Broken down as follows:
| Strain | Specimen | Dry Weight |
| Bruce Banner Auto | E1 | 35g |
| Bruce Banner Auto | E2 | 33g |
| Forum Stomper x CDLC | E3 | 32g |
| Forum Stomper x CDLC | E4 | 16g |
Don't mind the huge stems. I'm paranoid I over-dried (the buds feel so brittle), so I left extra chunks of stem for more moisture. Despite that dry feeling, most buds were not snapping off clean, so I am thinking they're actually still a little wet. Better safe than sorry.
Split across 6 jars so I could keep the two A/B tests (wet trim vs. dry trim) for E1 & E3 separated.
It should've been a lot better, but those lockout issues and flushes really set me back. The smell is great, and the smoke is already pretty smooth. Looking forward to what the cure brings out. Can definitely smell the strawberry in the bruces. E4's low weight isn't a huge surprise. She had an odd shape and struggled from the onset, exacerbated most definitely by my overfeeding and poor watering habits. She would've benefitted from aggressive defoliation all along as well.
The other night, I snuck a tester nug that fell off as I was doing trim for paper bags. Much to my surprise, as I was breaking it up (no grinder), I found a seed. lol. There were no signs of hermie on any of these things, and I haven't noticed any others yet. I'm not even sure which specimen the nug came off of. Anyway, I'm going to document what I find as I start smoking this stuff and hopefully make a determination on which one it was. I suspect E3 but didn't want to start breaking her up. From what I have read, this can happen under stressful situations -- And they were all most definitely stressed during early-mid flower.
Anyway, that's a wrap. I'm going to clean the tent out this weekend and maybe charge my coco for the next run. But I'll probably give myself a week or two to continue reading, set the autopots up, and think through strains for the next run.
Thanks again for all your help. <3
Last edited:
OttoCBD
Unmundane in the Membrane
Congrats on another well documented grow. Would the 'E' designation for your specimens happen to stand for 'entwicklung' ..the German word for development?And that's a wrap, my friends. I've been chomping at the bit to jar these, but today was the day since I found a few smaller nugs that were ready to snap off. I think they're still a little wet, but this was day 7 and I'd rather risk a little over-wet than too dry. They are in jars now with boveda 62's
All in, I got 4.14 oz. off the four plants. Broken down as follows:
View attachment 1243853View attachment 1243854
Strain Specimen Dry Weight Bruce Banner Auto E1 35g Bruce Banner Auto E2 33g Forum Stomper x CDLC E3 32g Forum Stomper x CDLC E4 16g
Split across 6 jars so I could keep the two A/B tests (wet trim vs. dry trim) for E1 & E3 separated.
It should've been a lot better, but those lockout issues and flushes really set me back. The smell is great, and the smoke is already pretty smooth. Looking forward to what the cure brings out. Can definitely smell the strawberry in the bruces. E4's low weight isn't a huge surprise. She had an odd shape and struggled from the onset, exacerbated most definitely by my overfeeding and poor watering habits. She would've benefitted from aggressive defoliation all along as well.
The other night, I snuck a tester nug that fell off as I was doing trim for paper bags. Much to my surprise, as I was breaking it up (no grinder), I found a seed. lol. There were no signs of hermie on any of these things, and I haven't noticed any others yet. I'm not even sure which specimen the nug came off of. Anyway, I'm going to document what I find as I start smoking this stuff and hopefully make a determination on which one it was. I suspect E3 but didn't want to start breaking her up. From what I have read, this can happen under stressful situations -- And they were all most definitely stressed during early-mid flower.
Anyway, that's a wrap. I'm going to clean the tent out this weekend and maybe charge my coco for the next run. But I'll probably give myself a week or two to continue reading, set the autopots up, and think through strains for the next run.
Thanks again for all your help. <3
- Joined
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- Lil' Wild Lamb (Beaver Genetics)
Thank you, amigo. I thought of you when I decided to top one of these. Definitely not looking back after seeing how well it worked.
Sorry, I'm afraid that was not it. But I like that better than the real explanation: This was my fifth 'grow' (A couple of them never got past seed/seedling), and I was just using a letter prefix to denote it.
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